Sustainable Forest Green Rovers

[Gibber_McGee]

When are the National League going to introduce Financial Fair Play at this level?

Never. They tried to introduce it 5 or so years ago but it was blocked by some of the overspending/indebted clubs at the time - Grimsby, Mansfield and I think FGR - because the new rules would have banned director's loans. For Financial Fair Play to come into practice the member clubs would need to vote for it to happen - and clearly some clubs in our league never will.

 

[Chris FGR]

And rightly so. Hopefully someone tests the EFL's FFP rules in court sooner rather the later. Can't see those standing up for long.

 

[Luke Imp]

At this point, I'd just like to rule us out of the 'down here because of financial mis-management' group.

 

[Luke Imp]

Tbf, the FL FFP was geared up to stop people putting in money via loans and only by share purchase, so you can end up with the same result, it just protects the Club.

EDIT - Saying that, I'm not sure what the hell has happened at Orient.

 

[Gladders]

Who was the last club to come down because of financial mis-management?
Luton, Darlo?

 

[Back in the DHSS]

I think Dale Vince is one of the good guys in football, i wouldn't say no if he wanted to be chairman of Tranmere. Don't think it matters what league your in, you still have to compete against teams who are being bank rolled, as there are ways of getting around financial fair play.

 

[Chris FGR]

Clubs who have been in adminstration at some point in the last 30 years, and are currently at or have been at this level recently- Tranmere, Newport, Kettering, Aldershot (twice!), Maidstone, Barnet, Exeter, Doncaster, Chester (twice!), Halifax (twice!), York, Darlington (x3!), Wrexham, Stockport, Cambridge, Boston, Crawley, Luton, Northwich, Farsley, Salisbury, Weymouth, Rushden and Diamonds.

Most of those clubs have at some point CHEATED local businesses, suppliers or club employees out of money they were rightfully owed, potentially doing a lot of damage in the process. No fans of those clubs have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling a club like us, who have NEVER had an insolvency event, that we are run badly or are bad for football.

 

[Luke Imp]

That's not what you said. You said...

Why did most of the BELT's end up down here? Oh yes, financial mismanagement, spending beyond their means and in some cases CHEATING local businesses and club employees out of monies owed by entering administration, which is DISGUSTING.

And then some of their fans try to take the moral high ground. We pay our bills, and have NEVER been in adminstration.

I genuinely don't know the answer, but what ex-FL Clubs are down here because of financial mis-management?

You can't pin their relegation on events that happened years ago.

 

[Chris FGR]

That's not what you said. You said...


I genuinely don't know the answer, but what ex-FL Clubs are down here because of financial mis-management?

You can't pin their relegation on events that happened years ago.

Do you not see the hypocrisy though?

 

[Gladders]

Do you not see the hypocrisy though?

No I see they have learnt from experience what a bad thing it is and now warning you it will end in tears

 

[Chris FGR]

They aren't warning us lol. They're whining how unfair it is and hoping we go bust so their much more deserving clubs have an easier time getting promoted.

They are just bitter, one eyed hypocrites.

 

[Luke Imp]

Do you not see the hypocrisy though?

To a point, but it's probably more of a 'been there, done that' kinda warning under a smaller scale.

The level of finance being put in relative to the size of the Club (by size I mean financially prior to DV) is probably beyond anything anyone else has ever put into one at this level and maybe even L1 and L2 (possibly except for Munto and Notts County).

In one respect, I find it quite admirable that someone who has no connection to the Club is prepared to put so much in albeit using the Club as a tool for his main Company and the new Stadium set-up will be a small part of his main Eco type park.

I'm pretty neutral in all of this, tbh. The only thing that irks slightly is the blasé attitude towards if from FGR fans, although saying that, that's probably been brought on by other comments so I'm not exactly sure when FGR fans are being serious or not or what their real feelings on it all are. I can understand the 'we're just enjoying the ride' sort of comments but it'll be you guys who pick it all up at some point. Don't get me wrong, there might come a point when DV walks away and effectively hands everything over and leaves it debt free and also leaves some £ in there to continue with the current running costs for a season or two (like Swann did with Gainsborough when he left for Scunny).

 

[The_Boss]

Would you class FGR having severe financial struggles due to Vince walking away as "Financial Mismanagement"?

 

[Gladders]

Would you class FGR having severe financial struggles due to Vince walking away as "Financial Mismanagement"?

No but posting losses over 5.3m in 2 seasons is.

 

[The_Boss]

No but posting losses over 5.3m in 2 seasons is.

So you'd say he's a hypocrite?

 

[gijsbert_bos]

The funniest thing for me is how Vince has spunked so much money on taking a team from a relegation-battling Conference team to a playoff-losing Conference team.

 

[JE93]

Clubs who have been in adminstration at some point in the last 30 years, and are currently at or have been at this level recently- Tranmere, Newport, Kettering, Aldershot (twice!), Maidstone, Barnet, Exeter, Doncaster, Chester (twice!), Halifax (twice!), York, Darlington (x3!), Wrexham, Stockport, Cambridge, Boston, Crawley, Luton, Northwich, Farsley, Salisbury, Weymouth, Rushden and Diamonds.

Most of those clubs have at some point CHEATED local businesses, suppliers or club employees out of money they were rightfully owed, potentially doing a lot of damage in the process. No fans of those clubs have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling a club like us, who have NEVER had an insolvency event, that we are run badly or are bad for football.

But all of these circumstances we caused by over spending. George Reynolds said he would get us to the premier league and built us the £25m stadium to get us there, George Haughton said championship, Raj Singh said he didn't want a penny, but as soon an he heard the fans we interested in buying the club he suddenly wanted the money he invested back because apparently it was a 'loan'.

Its all well and good sitting on your high horse and saying 'we have never let local businesses down through administration'. Our club is doing well to rebuild the bridges burnt over our 3 administrations. But you are doing exactly the same thing we were doing before we went into admin and let all those people down. and the only way you can see to 'become sustainable' is to spend and lose a shed load more money in the hope that new fans will be attracted to the club (a challenge considering you're moving away from population centers and you're already based in a rugby area) and you will have new revenue streams from a development which is years away from realisation.

Your existence as a club is entirely dependent on Daddy Dale not getting bored or fed up of you. At the end of the day you are a cost (a large one judging by your losses) to the parent business. If Dale is as clever as you say he will have no problem turning the money invested into loans, or he will simply seize your assets through the parent company. The truth is you are a passenger in your clubs existence. Just like we were in the League 2 days when we were fighting Brentford for promotion into League 1. It was all great then too and no one could touch us, but look what happened to us and how quickly it all went south.

 

[FGR Stroud]

Genuine question - do you think moving from a stadium on the edge of an area of housing to a motorway junction with no local population is a good idea? I can understand a big Prem or Championship club with an established supporter base doing it, as their fans will follow regardless. Can a non-league club aiming to grow their support make it a success? At the moment, I don't understand where the extra fans are going to come from.

There are more pros than cons in proposed move.

Nailsworth is in the middle of nowhere and Forest Green is a hamlet on edge of town.
Access to ground via Spring Hill is not really suitable for well attended matches. The road gets grid locked. Realistically the area could not satisfactorily handle regular over-large crowds.
I don't know the number of fans who live within walking distance of TNL but I'm sure a lot less than 100 so a move to edge of Eastington should not affect attendance. The new ground is within a short cycle ride from the sizeable population of nearby Stonehouse.

This site is next to motorway so will automatically attract new supporters who can easily navigate to Eco Park. The new site has a far larger catchment area than at present. Currently those who want to watch top class football and live off the A38 must travel to Bristol or Birmingham.
Downside is as your mention the new club site has a longer walk from a pub than other clubs (no different from now I suppose).

Also I worry about the club charging car owner to park - I don't think there will be any nearby off street parking. I've been assured that Eco Park will be on a bus route so fans might be able to park outside area and travel to game on bus. (I have a bus pass so it's free for me).

Tranmere are geared for Premiership sized attendance even though located within the local community. Other clubs located within the community, such as Cheltenham, are unable to increase their core support because of restrictions of numbers within stadium. The new FGR stadium will initially be no bigger than TNL but is so designed for additional seating if required. Up to double I understand.
And even though being built on other side of road to a Business Park, the club will be built within a sports complex, next to a restored canal. So I don't expect it to be soul-less.

 

[The_Boss]

But all of these circumstances we caused by over spending. George Reynolds said he would get us to the premier league and built us the £25m stadium to get us there, George Haughton said championship, Raj Singh said he didn't want a penny, but as soon an he heard the fans we interested in buying the club he suddenly wanted the money he invested back because apparently it was a 'loan'.

Its all well and good sitting on your high horse and saying 'we have never let local businesses down through administration'. Our club is doing well to rebuild the bridges burnt over our 3 administrations. But you are doing exactly the same thing we were doing before we went into admin and let all those people down. and the only way you can see to 'become sustainable' is to spend and lose a shed load more money in the hope that new fans will be attracted to the club (a challenge considering you're moving away from population centers and you're already based in a rugby area) and you will have new revenue streams from a development which is years away from realisation.

Your existence as a club is entirely dependent on Daddy Dale not getting bored or fed up of you. At the end of the day you are a cost (a large one judging by your losses) to the parent business. If Dale is as clever as you say he will have no problem turning the money invested into loans, or he will simply seize your assets through the parent company. The truth is you are a passenger in your clubs existence. Just like we were in the League 2 days when we were fighting Brentford for promotion into League 1. It was all great then too and no one could touch us, but look what happened to us and how quickly it all went south.

How very dare you write it in such an articulate way that even Neanderthal Chris can finally understand!!

 

[Chris FGR]

Would you class FGR having severe financial struggles due to Vince walking away as "Financial Mismanagement"?

He hasn't walked away, his company is doing well and can offset any losses made by FGR against Ecotricitys profits to reduce tax. Couple that with the advantages of owning a football club in terms of advertising/raising brand awareness as well as promoting the environmental aspect and it it all adds up to a win/win situation. Why would he walk away?

Vince is actually doing things a lot smarter here then many other multi millionaire businessmen have at a lot of the other clubs mentioned, which is why our model has a far better chance of long term success and sustainability. Revenue is increasing and the parent companies profits are increasing, in a sector that is only going to grow.

If DV ever did walk away, the club would cut it's costs accordingly, but be in a much stronger position in terms of fanbase, facilities and profile. So no, wouldn't call it financial mismanagement.

And we can find out how much of a fucking neanderthal I am tomorrow if you want, the offers always on the table for anyone who wants some.

 

[Tom Fgr]

You guys are so naive it hurts.

Ecotricity spends next to nothing on Marketing. They spend it on FGR(yes, a major marketing tool) anything they spend into FGR will benefit from massive tax reliefs(not shown in figures).

The amount of press FGR get for a national league club is fucking phenomenal, like it or lothe it, we are becoming more and more well known, this then inleads to more press for Ecotricity, which then links to Ecotricitys huge swell in customers number.

Since 2013, the company has nearly quadrupled in size, meaning profits have increased greatly.

Dale sees FGR as a fantastic opportunity to spread his message, it's working a treat.

Believe me, this is only the start.

 

[Pablosammy]

He hasn't walked away, his company is doing well and can offset any losses made by FGR against Ecotricitys profits to reduce tax.

He's still costing his shareholders money - not all of that £2M would have been paid as tax. Eventually there will be pressure to improve the figures.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

He's still costing his shareholders money - not all of that £2M would have been paid as tax. Eventually there will be pressure to improve the figures.

He.doesn't have shareholders at ecotricity. He's a millionaire vegan, he spends what he likes, as the song says. They raise money through special bonds which had worked well.

 

[Chris FGR]

That seems to be confusing people. FGR has shareholders, whereas The Ecotricity Group is a private limited company which is the majority shareholder in FGR.

The Ecotricity Group also holds fairly significant shares in Good Energy, a rival supplier, and a full takeover has been mooted.

 

[Sparrow]

Clubs who have been in adminstration at some point in the last 30 years, and are currently at or have been at this level recently- Tranmere, Newport, Kettering, Aldershot (twice!), Maidstone, Barnet, Exeter, Doncaster, Chester (twice!), Halifax (twice!), York, Darlington (x3!), Wrexham, Stockport, Cambridge, Boston, Crawley, Luton, Northwich, Farsley, Salisbury, Weymouth, Rushden and Diamonds.

Most of those clubs have at some point CHEATED local businesses, suppliers or club employees out of money they were rightfully owed, potentially doing a lot of damage in the process. No fans of those clubs have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling a club like us, who have NEVER had an insolvency event, that we are run badly or are bad for football.

Seeing as Woking aren't on that list of OFFENDERS, I'm free to continue my Forest Green bashing.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

I'd rather teams didn't spunk money up the wall but it's not news. Good luck to them.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Seeing as Woking aren't on that list of OFFENDERS, I'm free to continue my Forest Green bashing.

We'll struggle on somehow but don't expect a Christmas card.

 

[Chris FGR]

Seeing as Woking aren't on that list of OFFENDERS, I'm free to continue my Forest Green bashing.

Bash away.

Woking are a very well run club afterall.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

And Luton. They cheated us out of promotion in league one 04/05 with illegal transfers and over spending. Took years before they were punished and no compensation for us.

You were not cheated out of anything.

If you are generally interested and not just wanting to comfort yourself that your team simply was not good enough then read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/jun/18/lutontown.leaguetwofootball

 

[EnglishRed]

I'd hate to see any club go bust. But Tom FGR is so smug I could possibly make an exception.

FGR may be pretty safe from going bust anytime soon (let's face it it would only happen if Vince/Ecotricity had a complete 180) but until they actually go up they haven't really got any reason to brag for all their millions. When did they actually last achieve anything as a football club? Promotion this season is looking more and more unlikely.