The Van Gaal Era: Preformance Checks/Kpis

[Stevencc]

It is a shame to see, he was great to watch at Atletico. Hopefully he moves elsewhere and picks up again but I haven't seen any signs to suggest that will be the case.

 

[G.B]

I reckon I could net 20+ in the Spanish league.

 

[ArmchairDiehard]

It's more of a mental thing with Falcao I think. He may have recovered physically, but it looks as though it's taken a strain on him mentally.

 

[Mr. Scruff]

Anyone ready to admit they were wrong about Moyes yet?

 

[Pagnell]

Looking at the last few seasons I'd say comparing Moyes and Van Gaal is a bit like comparing being stabbed to being shot. Moyes was shit and Van Gaal is without doubt doing better, albeit without European distractions which skews the comparison a little. And he's also spent a fuck load of money for that improvement to happen. Like I said last week, anything less than a top 4 finish this season would be an embarrassment and, fortunately for both Van Gaal and United, that seems to be on track.

Saying that though, I said it at the start of the season and I'll say it again now, Van Gaal is the better manager, as his record shows. But he's not United's long term future.

 

[Mr. Scruff]

Looking at the last few seasons I'd say comparing Moyes and Van Gaal is a bit like comparing being stabbed to being shot. Moyes was shit and Van Gaal is without doubt doing better, albeit without European distractions which skews the comparison a little. And he's also spent a fuck load of money for that improvement to happen. Like I said last week, anything less than a top 4 finish this season would be an embarrassment and, fortunately for both Van Gaal and United, that seems to be on track.
ed
Saying that though, I said it at the start of the season and I'll say it again now, Van Gaal is the better manager, as his record shows. But he's not United's long term future.

You are being overly harsh on Van Gaal. Top 4 would represent a solid start rather than the bare minimum of achievement. Moyes inherited a stable winning machine albeit one in need of an oil change. Still what Ferguson left kept Moyes record respectable in the first half of the season. The longer Moyes had with us the more shambolic we became.

When you compare that with what Van Gaal has had to deal with. Wholesale changes to the first team, losing 3/4 of your first choice defence, a club whose confidence was at absolute rock bottom , a ridiculous number of injuries even by our poor standards, changing the style and play from a reactive counter attacking system to a possession orientation one its obvious to see we would struggle at first.

Just because he spent more than what Moyes did doesnt mean you could expect us to go smashing teams left right and centre. Football simply doesn't work like that hat we more or performed the same as Moyes did in his first half year despite the horrendous start suggests we did about par I'd say.

At times we have been less than pretty but we've not been anywhere near as bad as people like to say. Most games we've won we have been the better side, without looking brilliant but still in control of most games. But obviously our performance in the big games is where we have shown so much progress. Watching us in them games last year if using your analogy was akin to being stabbed multiple times then being shot. This year we havent lost a big game by more than a goal and even in them defeats we have done well. The performances against Liverpool and Spurs were many times better than anything we saw under Moyes.

Van Gaal isn't doing a perfect job but he is doing a decent one. He's already got more points than Moyes did with 4 less games and I think had Moyes stayed the season his record would be even worse as at that point we were a beaten team. It's time for people to accept that any comparison to Moyes are null and void.

 

[Pagnell]

You are being overly harsh on Van Gaal. Top 4 would represent a solid start rather than the bare minimum of achievement. Moyes inherited a stable winning machine albeit one in need of an oil change. Still what Ferguson left kept Moyes record respectable in the first half of the season. The longer Moyes had with us the more shambolic we became.

When you compare that with what Van Gaal has had to deal with. Wholesale changes to the first team, losing 3/4 of your first choice defence, a club whose confidence was at absolute rock bottom , a ridiculous number of injuries even by our poor standards, changing the style and play from a reactive counter attacking system to a possession orientation one its obvious to see we would struggle at first.

Just because he spent more than what Moyes did doesnt mean you could expect us to go smashing teams left right and centre. Football simply doesn't work like that hat we more or performed the same as Moyes did in his first half year despite the horrendous start suggests we did about par I'd say.

At times we have been less than pretty but we've not been anywhere near as bad as people like to say. Most games we've won we have been the better side, without looking brilliant but still in control of most games. But obviously our performance in the big games is where we have shown so much progress. Watching us in them games last year if using your analogy was akin to being stabbed multiple times then being shot. This year we havent lost a big game by more than a goal and even in them defeats we have done well. The performances against Liverpool and Spurs were many times better than anything we saw under Moyes.

Van Gaal isn't doing a perfect job but he is doing a decent one. He's already got more points than Moyes did with 4 less games and I think had Moyes stayed the season his record would be even worse as at that point we were a beaten team. It's time for people to accept that any comparison to Moyes are null and void.

I wouldn't say I'm being harsh on Van Gaal at all. He's doing not far off the bare minimal of what any competent manager should achieve with the money spent and the squad at his disposal. It's primarily the inevitable comparisons with Moyes that improve his standing.

I do accept Van Gaal's remit at the start of this season was different and, in some ways, more difficult than what Moyes had, as you touch on above. However, and far be it for me to defend Moyes, but there were aspects of Moyes's job that was more difficult. The very fact he took over from the most successful manager in recent years who'd been at the club for a quarter of a century really didn't help. He probably did his best, but that best wasn't good enough simply because he wasn't a good enough manager for a job of that size in the first place.

 

[Mr. Scruff]

I think you are. The money spent whilst a good thing caused a huge amount of instability which takes a long time to get over.

I think managers are judged far too harshly, Pelligrini wont be a failure this year for not winning something， Wenger hasn't been a failure for not mounting title challenge, Mourino certainly isnt a failure for losing a two legged CL tie and Van Gaal wont be a failure if we narrowly miss out on CL football.

Football just isn't a sport where superior ability consistently leads to wins. It's just too low scoring, and luck plays too big a part. Being there or there about is fine.

I'd agree that Moyes had a tough job following Ferguson and had we expected him to keep us winning ala Ferguson it would have been unrealistic. His expectations were simply to qualify for the CL. Had we even come close to that I suspect he'd still be here as the club clearly didn't want to sack him. We finished 7th miles behind 4th having been pummeled by our two fiercest rivals in some of the limpest displays United fans had ever seen.

The difference between the two in terms of performance is significant. Van Gaal deserves more than being compared such a colossal failure.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Bebe was a colossal failure
Moyes was more of a large failure

 

[Pagnell]

I think you are. The money spent whilst a good thing caused a huge amount of instability which takes a long time to get over.

I think managers are judged far too harshly, Pelligrini wont be a failure this year for not winning something， Wenger hasn't been a failure for not mounting title challenge, Mourino certainly isnt a failure for losing a two legged CL tie and Van Gaal wont be a failure if we narrowly miss out on CL football.

Football just isn't a sport where superior ability consistently leads to wins. It's just too low scoring, and luck plays too big a part. Being there or there about is fine.

I'd agree that Moyes had a tough job following Ferguson and had we expected him to keep us winning ala Ferguson it would have been unrealistic. His expectations were simply to qualify for the CL. Had we even come close to that I suspect he'd still be here as the club clearly didn't want to sack him. We finished 7th miles behind 4th having been pummeled by our two fiercest rivals in some of the limpest displays United fans had ever seen.

The difference between the two in terms of performance is significant. Van Gaal deserves more than being compared such a colossal failure.

I don't believe so but perhaps the truth is somewhere inbetween.

 

[Christian Slater]

The last two games are the first glimpses that we're progressing. If we play the same and lose I'm not too bothered, it's how hopeless we've been in defeat that's the problem. Let's see if we can keep it up.

 

[Steady]

You are being overly harsh on Van Gaal. Top 4 would represent a solid start rather than the bare minimum of achievement. Moyes inherited a stable winning machine albeit one in need of an oil change. Still what Ferguson left kept Moyes record respectable in the first half of the season. The longer Moyes had with us the more shambolic we became.

When you compare that with what Van Gaal has had to deal with. Wholesale changes to the first team, losing 3/4 of your first choice defence, a club whose confidence was at absolute rock bottom , a ridiculous number of injuries even by our poor standards, changing the style and play from a reactive counter attacking system to a possession orientation one its obvious to see we would struggle at first.

I can't be arsed to run around in yet more circles (and I'm sure you can't) in regards to this debate, so I'm just gonna take this snippet here and show you what I mean.

In the first paragraph you analyse Moyes' tenure in charge, saying he "inherited a stable winning machine albeit one in need of an oil change". I wholehearedly disagree for a start, but that's not the issue I have. It's that you go on to acknowledge that Moyes' record was 'respectable' in the first half of the season, but you literally put that all down to Ferguson. This is the only positive part of Moyes' reign that you've ever acknowledged, and you've completely downplayed it and attributed it to someone else. However, every negative aspect of his reign is laid at Moyes' feet and no-one else's. How on Earth is that fair? This is what I mean about how his stay was, and continues to be, portrayed. Everything that went wrong was completely down to him, anything that went right and was positive is all down to someone else.

Then you start to run down what Van Gaal "has had to deal with", including "losing 3/4 of your first choice defence" (Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra were all already pretty much gone before Moyes came through the door), injuries (which are suffered by every team and, shock horror, Moyes' United) and changing the style of play. I've seen Moyes regularly criticised for trying to change Ferguson's style while he was in charge, and I've also seen him criticised for not changing it enough.

Van Gaal qualifying for the Champions League won't change my mind, as I've reiterated over and over again that I've never said Moyes did a better job. My point has only ever been that Moyes was on a hiding to nothing from the start, while Van Gaal enjoyed a much easier ride up until the criticism started properly arriving in January. Beating Liverpool changes nothing for me, and don't assume you've already made the top four.

 

[Nath]

Ridiculous numbers for a guy who has been very much in and out of the team for ourselves. I know numbers aren't everything, but still very impressive.

 

[allouso]

Always loved Mata, classy fella. Couldn't hate him despite the goals!

I think the main issue with him, if that makes sense, is that besides his end product (which is great), he doesn't really offer much else. Could be the reason why Jose wanted to ship him out whilst Van Gaal seems hesitant at times.

 

[sl1k]

Always loved Mata, classy fella. Couldn't hate him despite the goals!

I think the main issue with him, if that makes sense, is that besides his end product (which is great), he doesn't really offer much else. Could be the reason why Jose wanted to ship him out whilst Van Gaal seems hesitant at times.

His touch, vision, playmaking, pass and movement?

I always suspected Mou sold him because he felt Mata lacked in the physical aspect of his game.

 

[allouso]

His touch, vision, playmaking, pass and movement?

I always suspected Mou sold him because he felt Mata lacked in the physical aspect of his game.

To be honest i can't argue with any of those attributes that you mentioned, there's just something about him that i feel is lacking. There are so many times when i just forget that he is playing and games pass him by. I always thought Lampard had the same issue for the record. That's not saying that Mata isn't great, i'd love to have him in my team, but there are some areas of his game that i think are lacking.

I think that's why Jose let him go. Obviously there is the physical aspect but i also believe he let him go because he slows the game down, doesn't get stuck in enough and doesn't cause enough chaos for opposing defenders by running at them. His dribbling stats are pretty poor compared to other attacking midfleders/wingers in the league (Silva, Ozil, Sterling, Coutinho all have better dribbling stats, have more key passes per game and they get fouled more often).

Saying that, he makes up for this by scoring/assisting more than any of those bar maybe Silva. I just think that's he's not the complete package yet.

 

[sl1k]

He has graceful balance, but does look 'lightweight' at times on the ball not to mention that he's not exactly known for his pace - two key factors in regards to his dribbling stats IMO. His goals+assists however, show just how good he is at the attributes I mentioned in the previous post.

I do know what you mean about him going missing in games occasionally, but now that Van Gaal seems to have the team well versed in their positional play and team shape, I'm confident we'll get the best out of him, Herrera and Carrick. His stats are just incredible though for player who's been in and out of the team.

 

[mistermagic]

Ridiculous numbers for a guy who has been very much in and out of the team for ourselves. I know numbers aren't everything, but still very impressive.

I thought the same thing but Mata has played in the most league games (25) behind De Gea and Rooney. I think he plays more often than we think which backs up the point of him having games passing him by.

 

[Stevencc]

Van Gaal picking up the Anton Geesink award for "remarkable sport performance" yesterday.

Trophyless my arse.

 

[silkyman]

That's a hell of a buttplug... For shure.

 

[Stocky]

That's a hell of a buttplug... For shure.

Who is it this week feller, Macc or City?

 

[silkyman]

Zing.

You should do stand up with cool quick wit like that.

 

[Stocky]

Zing.

You should do stand up with cool quick wit like that.

You still too scared to go to the Moss Rose in case they all give you s**t again?

Good to see the club back on the right path. As for you, hopefully you're on the path to accept what a spineless little coward you are.

 

[Stevencc]

This escalated quickly.

 

[silkyman]

I think this twat was at the old place before being banned.

 

[Stocky]

I think this twat was at the old place before being banned.

Your own fans despise you. That's a fact. I'm not directing aimless abuse at you like you to me.

Is that why you decided to jump on the plastics bandwagon by the way? When you decided to start supporting them did the fleece you have to religiously wear supporting that lot come with the customary fried egg stain on the front or did you have to put in there?

 

[silkyman]

Seeing as my first City game was in 1989, I've not got a clue what you could be talking about. I worry that you've only posted 17 times and are already stalking me. Do you want a signed photo and lock of my hair or something?

 

[Stocky]

Seeing as my first City game was in 1989, I've not got a clue what you could be talking about. I worry that you've only posted 17 times and are already stalking me. Do you want a signed photo and lock of my hair or something?

I was a poster on TFF years ago, that's no secret.

Good to see Macclesfield Town in good health in again.

Spineless, pitiful little man.

 

[silkyman]

Sigh

If you have some sort of beef with me, take it to the pms. These good people don't want to be bothered by your rantings.

 

[Steady]

Speak for yourself; this is fucking brilliant.