PL shit that doesn't need it's own thread.

[Christian Slater]

Comparing Carragher to Wes Brown and John O'Shea. Why stop there? Stick Quintin Fortune on the list too.

Wes Brown and John O'Shea played major roles in very successful teams. United, much like Liverpool, could do better though.

 

[St. Juste]

Carragher, along with Gerrard and Hyypia, was the backbone of a Liverpool team that won pretty much everything there is for an English top flight domestic team to win bar the league title. To call him average is ridiculous in my view.

Well, again, it depends how you define "backbone" and either way he is clearly the least talenetd, and least influential of the three.

And of course, not many people really care about the League Cup, or FA Cup.

Carragher was also clearly good enough for a side challenging for the league, as he did on more than one occasion. Wes Morgan and Robert Huth were the first choice defensive pairing of the reigning league champions ffs. With the 'science' that goes into the teams having got even better since Carragher was at his peak it'd be daft to say he was average or wouldn't be able to.

Danny Ings scored 2 league goals in 5 league appearances at the start of last season before a serious knee injury. Mario Balotelli has scored 2 league goals in his last 36 league appearances over 2 seasons for 2 different teams in 2 different countries. Rickie Lambert was a £4m past it 3rd choice fridge who was intended to be back-up by the point he signed for us and was still better for the same Liverpool side. Voronin was a free transfer back-up who was hilariously bad, but his signing was hardly as important and he is unanimously regarded as utter shite. He also scored 5 times as many league goals for Liverpool than Balotelli managed.

Mario Balotelli took a lot of abuse for us because he was fucking woeful, and him replacing Luis Suarez is one of the worst transfer moves Liverpool have ever made. This is a club who in the past 7 years alone have replaced Fernando Torres with Andy Carroll and Xabi Alonso with Alberto Aquilani. The criticism he received was more than just. If it were any other 26 year old international striker who cost £16m, managed 2 league goals in 2 years and the standard of general play he has displayed I'd doubt you'd be giving them this defence.

Yes, but plenty of poor - average players (for Liverpool and other clubs) have "challenged" for the title. I think underestimate the extent to which football has developed recently, and the increase in standard.

Take Gary Gillespie, over 150 appearances for Liverpool (at a time they were actually quite good) but he would not be of the standard required to play in the current team even though they are now just high mid table really. I put Carragher in this category. Not that there was anything wrong with him specifically, but he's one of the last throw backs in English football. Jon Flanagan and Andre Wisdom might be of similar ability levels but won't make it at Liverpool to anywhere near the same extent. To not be a brilliant player himself but still throw shade is like Robbie Savage having a go at Juan Sebastien Veron.

Or, my favourite of all time, Gareth Southgate going into detail as to how Fabio Cannavaro should defend during an international match a few years ago. It absolutely does deserve ridicule.

Balotelli was getting abused before he'd even played and people made their mind up on him straight away. It's no surprise he threw a strop, even if he did pretend to pander to the fans on twitter. He's being judged by the media for some daft things (and plenty of falsehoods) attributed to him earlier in his career. He never stood a chance, that's my point.

Andy Carroll is another good example, an abysmal player no where near as talented as Balotelli who cost even more.

I'm not so much questioning that (I guess it's where the line between being fans & ex/pros etc. may blur a little, but that's a fair point - I have some issues with Carragher myself tbh), but the quote I directly replied to from St Miranda there expressly mentioned Liverpool fans.

Yes, the Liverpool fans didn't give him a chance, I'm sure they were most bitter when he did score as it meant they might have to wait a bit before attacking him again.

I'm glad he's left English football, he should never return, as the irrational hatred of him seems very deeply set.

You could say the same about Ibrahimovic 5 years ago, but he seems to have turned that around. Who could forget Redknapps comment that people finally awoke to the "awesome power of Ibrahimovic" after he scored 4 goals against England and ruined Gerrards 100th cap. Never mind he had been one of the most decorated footballers of his era for almost a decade prior to that.

 

[merseyboyred]

That's a lot of deflection to avoid admitting you were wrong, but ok.

The best thing Mario Balotelli did for Liverpool was a three word tweet.

 

[Stevencc]

I'm going to start livening up my evenings by taking a swig of beer every time I see St. Juste use the word "England" or "English" in his posts.

 

[G-Dragon]

Well, again, it depends how you define "backbone" and either way he is clearly the least talenetd, and least influential of the three.

And of course, not many people really care about the League Cup, or FA Cup.



Yes, but plenty of poor - average players (for Liverpool and other clubs) have "challenged" for the title. I think underestimate the extent to which football has developed recently, and the increase in standard.

Take Gary Gillespie, over 150 appearances for Liverpool (at a time they were actually quite good) but he would not be of the standard required to play in the current team even though they are now just high mid table really. I put Carragher in this category. Not that there was anything wrong with him specifically, but he's one of the last throw backs in English football. Jon Flanagan and Andre Wisdom might be of similar ability levels but won't make it at Liverpool to anywhere near the same extent. To not be a brilliant player himself but still throw shade is like Robbie Savage having a go at Juan Sebastien Veron.

Or, my favourite of all time, Gareth Southgate going into detail as to how Fabio Cannavaro should defend during an international match a few years ago. It absolutely does deserve ridicule.

Balotelli was getting abused before he'd even played and people made their mind up on him straight away. It's no surprise he threw a strop, even if he did pretend to pander to the fans on twitter. He's being judged by the media for some daft things (and plenty of falsehoods) attributed to him earlier in his career. He never stood a chance, that's my point.

Andy Carroll is another good example, an abysmal player no where near as talented as Balotelli who cost even more.



Yes, the Liverpool fans didn't give him a chance, I'm sure they were most bitter when he did score as it meant they might have to wait a bit before attacking him again.

I'm glad he's left English football, he should never return, as the irrational hatred of him seems very deeply set.

You could say the same about Ibrahimovic 5 years ago, but he seems to have turned that around. Who could forget Redknapps comment that people finally awoke to the "awesome power of Ibrahimovic" after he scored 4 goals against England and ruined Gerrards 100th cap. Never mind he had been one of the most decorated footballers of his era for almost a decade prior to that.

Can't be bothered to fully read the essay but Ballotelli is a shit player. There was a reason not many clubs wanted him even for FREE. In a market where even the likes of Jordan Ibe could fetch 15 million! If he can't take little abuse then he needs to quit playing football. I am sure everyone is glad he left English football.

It is a disgrace that nothing players like Balotelli is compared with a legend like Carra.

 

[merseyboyred]

I'm going to start livening up my evenings by taking a swig of beer every time I see St. Juste use the word "England" or "English" in his posts.

Livening up your evenings or forgetting them?

 

[St. Juste]

That's a lot of deflection to avoid admitting you were wrong, but ok.

The best thing Mario Balotelli did for Liverpool was a three word tweet.

Well, in no sense, whatsoever, was I wrong.

The transfer was a disaster waiting to happen, the fans never gave him a chance.

I'm going to start livening up my evenings by taking a swig of beer every time I see St. Juste use the word "England" or "English" in his posts.

Three swigs? Sounds like a wild evening.

Can't be bothered to fully read the essay but Ballotelli is a shit player. There was a reason not many clubs wanted him even for FREE. In a market where even the likes of Jordan Ibe could fetch 15 million! If he can't take little abuse then he needs to quit playing football. I am sure everyone is glad he left English football.

It is a disgrace that nothing players like Balotelli is compared with a legend like Carra.

Yeah, his wages.

The comparison with Jordan Ibe makes no sense whatsoever, sorry, he'll be barely on a third what Balotelli is on.

I do like the entitlement of football fans that they can "abuse" players, do you "abuse" waiters if your meal is late? It's utterly absurd, and the people see football as a free pass to abuse people doing their jobs need to have a long hard look at them self in the mirror.

 

[Pagnell]

The transfer was a disaster waiting to happen, the fans never gave him a chance.

He was complete dog shit from day one. It's not as if the fans were on his back from the first minute he played, but it became clear he wasn't going to do anything in a Liverpool shir, and worse, didn't appear to be bothered that that was the case.

I do like the entitlement of football fans that they can "abuse" players, do you "abuse" waiters if your meal is late? It's utterly absurd, and the people see football as a free pass to abuse people doing their jobs need to have a long hard look at them self in the mirror.

Oh fuck off. It's football. It's how it works. Shit players get abuse from fans, deal with it. I'd love to know what your alternative is, some lovey-dovey bollocks involving the fans staying silent and shaking their heads with a wry smile when an under-performing player fucks something up no doubt.

 

[TheMinsterman]

It's only really entitled if they think they can shout whatever they want at the players and then cry if the player dares to say a single word in their general direction.

 

[Stevencc]

I know this thread is called "pl shit that doesn't need its own thread" but can we give St. Juste his own thread so he can talk to himself?

 

[G-Dragon]

The comparison with Jordan Ibe makes no sense whatsoever, sorry, he'll be barely on a third what Balotelli is on.

Why not? Its not like only clubs at the level of Bournemouth (no offense) are interested in him....or is it? Even Palace signed Benteke with high wages for 30+ million.

 

[St. Juste]

He was complete dog shit from day one. It's not as if the fans were on his back from the first minute he played, but it became clear he wasn't going to do anything in a Liverpool shir, and worse, didn't appear to be bothered that that was the case.

Oh fuck off. It's football. It's how it works. Shit players get abuse from fans, deal with it. I'd love to know what your alternative is, some lovey-dovey bollocks involving the fans staying silent and shaking their heads with a wry smile when an under-performing player fucks something up no doubt.

As I said, I wonder if Lambert or Ings, or Degen, or any of the other many awful players Liverpool have had recently got the same level of abuse. To say Balotelli was treated just like any other player is clearly incorrect - he was singled out, and far more than most.

Do I have an alternative? Yes. How about acting like actual human beings? No other sport on earth has this kind of vitirol attached to it, certainly none to anywhere near the same extent. Why is it that people can enjoy rugby, NFL, Basketball, Tennis, Golf without abusing someone, but in football it is seen as soon kind of unassailable right to verbally attack the opposition, or members of your own team. It was on another thread here when people started chanting at a female steward remarking on her appearance, you think this is fair or right?

Yes, footballers at the top end earn a lot of money, but it doesn't make them any less human or invulnerable to criticism. If you start abusing a call centre worker they will hang up on you, if you do it to a cabbie he'll kick you out, it's only footballers who have to stand there and take it. And who get a lengthy ban if they respond in any way whatsoever. And of course, most footballers earn very little, but still have to put up with the same amount of abuse.

There is a drive now to stop on field dissent towards the referee, most fans and pundits seem to agree it's a good idea (it is), but why isn't this being accommodated by a corresponding shift in the terraces.

Can it be done and atmosphere maintained? Well, it seems every other sport or major event in the world manages it.

It's only really entitled if they think they can shout whatever they want at the players and then cry if the player dares to say a single word in their general direction.

Which is what they invariably do, look at the laughable ban Adebayor got for daring to be in the way of missiles Arsenal fans threw at him.

I know this thread is called "pl shit that doesn't need its own thread" but can we give St. Juste his own thread so he can talk to himself?

I'm neither forcing you to read nor reply.

Why not? Its not like only clubs at the level of Bournemouth (no offense) are interested in him....or is it? Even Palace signed Benteke with high wages for 30+ million.

Premier League clubs can afford enormous wage, but Balotellis career in this country is clearly over and it's a whole different marketplace elsewhere.

 

[G-Dragon]

As I said, I wonder if Lambert or Ings, or Degen, or any of the other many awful players Liverpool have had recently got the same level of abuse. To say Balotelli was treated just like any other player is clearly incorrect - he was singled out, and far more than most.

Do I have an alternative? Yes. How about acting like actual human beings? No other sport on earth has this kind of vitirol attached to it, certainly none to anywhere near the same extent. Why is it that people can enjoy rugby, NFL, Basketball, Tennis, Golf without abusing someone, but in football it is seen as soon kind of unassailable right to verbally attack the opposition, or members of your own team. It was on another thread here when people started chanting at a female steward remarking on her appearance, you think this is fair or right?

Yes, footballers at the top end earn a lot of money, but it doesn't make them any less human or invulnerable to criticism. If you start abusing a call centre worker they will hang up on you, if you do it to a cabbie he'll kick you out, it's only footballers who have to stand there and take it. And who get a lengthy ban if they respond in any way whatsoever. And of course, most footballers earn very little, but still have to put up with the same amount of abuse.

There is a drive now to stop on field dissent towards the referee, most fans and pundits seem to agree it's a good idea (it is), but why isn't this being accommodated by a corresponding shift in the terraces.

Can it be done and atmosphere maintained? Well, it seems every other sport or major event in the world manages it.

You clearly don't watch any other major sports.

 

[Nilsson]

Baloteli's problem is that he's just not as good as the hype and his lack of ability will never allow him to live up to it. Not really his problem though, the persona sells. The fact Liverpool signed him is hilarious.

 

[SALTIRE]

Got a 30pc sell on clause on him at Nice so when he wins the Ballot D'Or and Madrid buy him for 200 mill which Raola said a big star will go for soon, then we'll make our money back on him.

 

[Stevencc]

"Joining Liverpool was the worst decision of my life. Apart from the fantastic fans and some player with whom I have an excellent relationship, I did not like the club," Balotelli told Canal+.

"I had two coaches at Liverpool, Rodgers and Klopp for a bit, I did not like their methods and their personality. I never really felt well there.

"I am nothing like Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] for example. You could confront Zlatan with lions and he would still be calm. If you surround him with good people, he will still be calm. That's the way he is.

"But I need to be more relaxed and have surroundings that work for me."

 

[Pagnell]

"My reputation and personality are far larger than my ability. I'm mediocre and was found out. Again."

 

[SALTIRE]

"Joining Liverpool was the worst decision of my life. Apart from the fantastic fans and some player with whom I have an excellent relationship, I did not like the club," Balotelli told Canal+.

"I had two coaches at Liverpool, Rodgers and Klopp for a bit, I did not like their methods and their personality. I never really felt well there.

"I am nothing like Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] for example. You could confront Zlatan with lions and he would still be calm. If you surround him with good people, he will still be calm. That's the way he is.

"But I need to be more relaxed and have surroundings that work for me."

 

[St. Juste]

You clearly don't watch any other major sports.

Well, that's a complete and utter surrender of a reply if I ever saw one.

"My reputation and personality are far larger than my ability. I'm mediocre and was found out. Again."

"People asked me so I told them the truth, but because it is is me I will still be criticised for it".

 

[Pagnell]

I've no doubt it is the truth. It's strange that problems with managers and fellow players seem to follow him around though. I'm sure there is a common factor here somewhere.....

 

[Dirk]

"Joining Liverpool was the worst decision of my life. Apart from the fantastic fans and some player with whom I have an excellent relationship, I did not like the club," Balotelli told Canal+.

Yeah, and I bet you told Canal+ how much you like your new french club, how nice Nice is .....until they see what a moron you are and get rid of you like all the other clubs. Then Nice won't be nice either

"I had two coaches at Liverpool, Rodgers and Klopp for a bit, I did not like their methods and their personality. I never really felt well there.

Good for Liverpool that you never felt well there. A guy like you in the lockerroom is pure poison. You and Lord Bendtner would make a good pair

"But I need to be more relaxed and have surroundings that work for me."

Go back to mommy.

 

[Bilo]

Balotelli was getting abused before he'd even played and people made their mind up on him straight away.

Oh get to fuck. That's not true, and it wasn't true for Hodgson either.

Liverpool have made some atrocious signings over the past ten years. But in every case -- Hodgson, Carroll, Aquilani, Balotelli -- in the beginning, everyone and their uncle do their absolute best to find a way of hoping that it'll work out (in Hodgson's case, Cole was gonna change the world). I remember being in a Liverpool pub in Paris for Balotelli's first match at Tottenham, he even had his own chant. Same on RAWK and any other major forum. The kop sang his name in the early games, as well.

It's incredibly rare that a player or a manager doesn't get a chance from day one, at least at Liverpool. In fact, we're experts at sticking our heads in the sand and thinking every signing could be great regardless of facts telling a different story. So basically, stop chatting shit.

 

[Stevencc]

I have to say that I don't remember any Liverpool fans "abusing" Balotelli either - of course some of them didn't think he was a good signing but he didn't get any unfair criticism. Certainly not before he'd played.

 

[JimJams]

Balo gets 2 in a 3-2 win over Marseille. Usual non celebration of his goals but looked genuinely happy at the end of the game when the Nice team went to the fans. Didn't know prior that Belhanda was at Nice on loan. Gonna be worth a watch.

 

[St. Juste]

I've no doubt it is the truth. It's strange that problems with managers and fellow players seem to follow him around though. I'm sure there is a common factor here somewhere.....

Problems with managers and fellow players will follow nearly every player around - football is normal society in hyperdrive, if you've ever had a problem with a colleague or manager you'd bet nearly all football players have. Being rich, indulged and lacking emotional skills will only make this more profound.

What differentiates Balotelli is that he is actually honest about it, something that really doesn't go down well in football - look at the vitirol directed at Benoit Assou Ekotto for admitting he plays football to get paid (as if this was some kind of blasphemous incendiary statement).

Oh get to fuck. That's not true, and it wasn't true for Hodgson either.

Liverpool have made some atrocious signings over the past ten years. But in every case -- Hodgson, Carroll, Aquilani, Balotelli -- in the beginning, everyone and their uncle do their absolute best to find a way of hoping that it'll work out (in Hodgson's case, Cole was gonna change the world). I remember being in a Liverpool pub in Paris for Balotelli's first match at Tottenham, he even had his own chant. Same on RAWK and any other major forum. The kop sang his name in the early games, as well.

It's incredibly rare that a player or a manager doesn't get a chance from day one, at least at Liverpool. In fact, we're experts at sticking our heads in the sand and thinking every signing could be great regardless of facts telling a different story. So basically, stop chatting shit.

Singing his name, eh? Rodgers himself led the criticism by bizarrely suggesting it was a "calcualted risk" - which all signings are obviously - but why is he highlighting it in this specific case.

Of all the multitude of clearly bad players who have played for Liverpool - has any of them ever derided as much criticism as Balotelli? How many of them have been attacked by former 'legends' as soon as they leave the club.

Balo gets 2 in a 3-2 win over Marseille. Usual non celebration of his goals but looked genuinely happy at the end of the game when the Nice team went to the fans. Didn't know prior that Belhanda was at Nice on loan. Gonna be worth a watch.

Liverpool fans will probably be angry at him for the rest of his career.

Pity he's actually quite a good player when the conditions are right.

 

[G-Dragon]

Of all the multitude of clearly bad players who have played for Liverpool - has any of them ever derided as much criticism as Balotelli? How many of them have been attacked by former 'legends' as soon as they leave the club.

Liverpool fans will probably be angry at him for the rest of his career.

Pity he's actually quite a good player when the conditions are right.

Lucas received (and still does) far worse "abuse" than Balotelli ever did. And why would Liverpool fans or any fans in general be angry or hold a grudge against a failed player? I am sure Mario tried his best but he just wasn't good enough to play at elite level. I am glad he started his season well at Nice.

 

[merseyboyred]

Well, in no sense, whatsoever, was I wrong.

The transfer was a disaster waiting to happen, the fans never gave him a chance.

:laugh:

Everything you said was wrong. Everything you continue to say is wrong.

Maybe we should get shane to dig up that open letter again... Didn't give him a chance. Most of my twitter feed are still sad that it didn't work out.

Singing his name, eh? Rodgers himself led the criticism by bizarrely suggesting it was a "calcualted risk" - which all signings are obviously - but why is he highlighting it in this specific case.

Of all the multitude of clearly bad players who have played for Liverpool - has any of them ever derided as much criticism as Balotelli? How many of them have been attacked by former 'legends' as soon as they.

Our first choice keeper for the past 3 seasons and the only actual left back we have on the books currently receive far greater criticism amongst our fans than Balotelli did. Lucas is one of the few players to receive serious criticism during games. Diouf suffered far greater abuse. Itandje did too etc.

Of all the multitude of bad players we've signed in the Premier League era, no other signing has been more damaging to the performance of the team and contributed less compared to the importance of their signing. Only Aquilani comes close, and his was due to injuries, not the actual quality of his performance on the pitch. I don't really know why I'm bothering though, you're arguing the inarguable, which is something we all knew.

 

[JimJams]

Sako getting on some Snapchat shit to moan about not being in the team and being frozen out.
The fans will know the truth! Apparently.

Doing himself any favours?

"Now it's three weeks since I am fit to play games. I finish all my rehabilitation work. They don't want me to play also with second team lol! Why I don't know."
"Still working hard like Scouse Soldier! Still not talking cos (because) I want speak on pitch.. I will speak soon for the people who support me and don't understand the situation. Still happy to live in my 'Liverpool Country' with my family, hope to have chance to play soon to give my best like I try to do always!"

 

[Stevencc]

I've not followed this story - why exactly has he been frozen out? He was found to be innocent with the drugs thing, wasn't he? What has he done?

 

[Christian Slater]

Frequently unpunctual I believe, Steven.

Does it make any difference if he publicly vents?