Match Day National League Fixtures - 02/11/19

[TheEndIsNigh]

It wouldn't make the league any better no, but it would show that there is a clear distinction between the top and the bottom, Bromley, league leaders lost yesterday to a team who had 3 wins in 19, Halifax have been whopped three times in the last five games, still sit third, Woking have 1 win 10 and are five points off 1st.

Yeah but we’re not even halfway through the season. I know in the dim and distant past when we’ve won leagues by a good few points we’ve not even gone top until well after Christmas.

And Bromley won’t be winning this league. Or Halifax.

 

[Optipez]

Think the league is beginning to stretch out now. Probably a bit unusual this season in that Wrexham, Chesterfield, Yeovil, Hartlepool and Notts all took time to get going and would be expected to be top half just on the fact that they're the bigger clubs in the division as well as Fylde and Harrogate who are big spenders.
Also Woking, Bromley,Yeovil, Barrow and Solihull have at different points all had insanely good form and only Bromley have maintained promotion form from the beginning of the season.
As suspensions and injuries kick in the bigger squads and clubs with the money to strengthen should kick on from now. My first season following this division really closely but having always paid attention to the table it doesn't look like this season will be unusual in terms of overall points tallies to make the play-off s.

 

[Optipez]

From the teams I've seen so far Torquay, Harrogate and Hartlepool looked the most likely to finish top seven.
Wrexham and Ebbsfleet looked poor, ( We only drew with each) and Chorley looked up against it, playing well enough but conceded five.

 

[EnglishRed]

Keates will make us more solid. Yesterday's 1-0 should be more telling of the rest of our season than the early season disjointed performances under Hughes. A lot will depend on whether or not Hooper can get over his injury as we currently have nothing up front. Our start will mean we won't trouble the play offs. At this stage I'd snatch your hand off for 12-14th.

Id expect Notts County and possibly Yeovil to be the teams challenging at the end of the season. After iffy starts (due to the summer issues no doubt) their greater resources should start to tell. After that it's anyone's guess. Solihull will keep rising. I'd expect the likes of Woking and Halifax to fall away after Christmas. Barrow look decent but a lot will depend on whether they can keep players like Quigley fit. He usually starts to break down about now. You also never know when Rooney will down tools.

 

[Magpie Mike]

Forgot to mention we played with 10 men for the last 6 minutes after Taylor went off injured after all 3 subs had been used aswell - so we ended up with 9 plus a passenger* upfront for the last 5 mins of injury time.
Edit - apparently Granite has broken his collar bone - and played on with that injury...

Hence the expression "tough as granite"

 

[B2TF]

Keates will make us more solid. Yesterday's 1-0 should be more telling of the rest of our season than the early season disjointed performances under Hughes. A lot will depend on whether or not Hooper can get over his injury as we currently have nothing up front. Our start will mean we won't trouble the play offs. At this stage I'd snatch your hand off for 12-14th.

Id expect Notts County and possibly Yeovil to be the teams challenging at the end of the season. After iffy starts (due to the summer issues no doubt) their greater resources should start to tell. After that it's anyone's guess. Solihull will keep rising. I'd expect the likes of Woking and Halifax to fall away after Christmas. Barrow look decent but a lot will depend on whether they can keep players like Quigley fit. He usually starts to break down about now. You also never know when Rooney will down tools.

I expect the "likes of" Wrexham to remember they've been here 10 years and never looked like going up.

 

[Master D]

Wasn't it Halifax I saw desperately begging for investment from any old random sugar daddy last week?

Could be time to file them alongside Fylde, Eastleigh, Harrogate etc.

 

[simonfromsurrey]

Have Wrexham ever had to reform ?

 

[springerbfc]

The general standard is always based on the standard of any given team.

I really enjoy “the standard of this league is the worst it’s ever been” posts that crop up every single season without fail.

Has Alan Alger tweeted it yet?

But have you seen the league table? We are 8 points off the top. 8. That's less than 3 wins. And we're almost at the half way stage.

If that is not conclusive proof that the general standard this season has been awful, then I don't know what is

 

[Luke Imp]

Why do people always associate a close league with a shit league?

I’m not saying this league isn’t a shit league btw I’m just saying if someone were 10 points clear, it wouldn’t necessarily make it any better.

I think it's probably the standard of the top teams rather than the league as a whole. If you compare the standard of the top teams now to when, in recent times, the likes of Wrexham, Tranmere, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Cheltenham, Fleetwood, Lincoln, Mansfield, Kidderminster racked up nearly 100 points then it's probably well, well short.

For example, the year we got promoted, FGR were mid-40's by this stage I think and we won the league on 99 points with two games in hand. Bromley are currently 4 wins behind and are on for low 80's, which is a massive difference.

Wrexham chased down Fleetwood to nearly 100 points and likewise Kiddy with Mansfield and Tranmere with us.

This might be slightly out now but over the last 10 years, an average points total for 1st has been 98 with 2nd 90.

 

[jacobncfc]

I think it's probably the standard of the top teams rather than the league as a whole. If you compare the standard of the top teams now to when, in recent times, the likes of Wrexham, Tranmere, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Cheltenham, Fleetwood, Lincoln, Mansfield, Kidderminster racked up nearly 100 points then it's probably well, well short.

For example, the year we got promoted, FGR were mid-40's by this stage I think and we won the league on 99 points with two games in hand. Bromley are currently 4 wins behind and are on for low 80's, which is a massive difference.

Wrexham chased down Fleetwood to nearly 100 points and likewise Kiddy with Mansfield and Tranmere with us.

This might be slightly out now but over the last 10 years, an average points total for 1st has been 98 with 2nd 90.

Devil’s advocate rather than me having any idea either way, but that could just as easily be because the general standard is higher so the top teams drop more points.

 

[B2TF]

Wasn't it Halifax I saw desperately begging for investment from any old random sugar daddy last week?

Could be time to file them alongside Fylde, Eastleigh, Harrogate etc.

No.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Devil’s advocate rather than me having any idea either way, but that could just as easily be because the general standard is higher so the top teams drop more points.

Exactly! If a team is running away with it (which absurdly seems to be some people's criteria for a high standard) then it says to me that the teams they are facing are shit.

We just played Sutton who are second bottom and played great football. Chorley were decent against us too - not like the dross that usually gets cut adrift by this point.

The best way to judge is probably to take the average teams - the ones in mid table - and I reckon they're probably the same standard as ever.

 

[doveranddover]

Perhaps it's because the split of part-time/full time teams was bigger back then?

 

[springerbfc]

This is of course an entirely subjective discussion.

However, the lack of any team averaging 2 points a game does seem unusual and indicates the difference in quality between the top end and the rest is less significant than it has been in other years.

And based on Barnet , I'd say we are certainly no better than last season however, we are only 8 points off top spot at almost the half way stage.

Last season, we had picked up one extra point at this stage but were 14 points off top spot and there were 4 teams who were averaging 2+ points a game.

 

[Aeneas]

After 20 games last year Orient, Salford and Wrexham had over 40 points. Behind them, Solihull were moving up the table after an average start and Harrogate and Fylde were solid enough to stay in the playoff picture all season. In comparison, Bromley's total of 36 points would get them 6th place.

I'd echo the sentiments of the two fellow Yeovil posters. I've been underwhelmed by the quality so far despite complimentary reports from Woking, Aldershot and Halifax fans after we played them. Saturday showed both sides of Yeovil so far; battered a poor Boreham Wood defence for half an hour, like we did against Woking and Fylde but when they changed their shape in the second half we clung on and couldn't string more than 2 passes together. The only difference was we had a 2-goal lead against Fylde and 3 against Woking and were able to ride out the second halves.

Edit: beaten by a minute by springerbfc who makes many of the same points as me.

 

[simonfromsurrey]

If the league was only played on a Saturday we'd be top

We've lost 5 games, 4 on a Tuesday night. Notts County had a nice relaxing day on Tuesday before our game, we had players at work until 5.30 !

 

[EnglishRed]

Perhaps it's because the split of part-time/full time teams was bigger back then?

I used to like that, back when we first came down. There were usually one or two clubs you can expect to hammer, especially towards the end of the season when they started to shed players when they were either already down or safe.

I think the general standard is a lot better, but there hasn't really been a standout side (in the vein of Fleetwood or Luton when they went up) for a couple of seasons.

At the end of the day this is the fifth tier. I'm not sure what some people expect.

 

[Luke Imp]

Devil’s advocate rather than me having any idea either way, but that could just as easily be because the general standard is higher so the top teams drop more points.

Exactly! If a team is running away with it (which absurdly seems to be some people's criteria for a high standard) then it says to me that the teams they are facing are shit.

We just played Sutton who are second bottom and played great football. Chorley were decent against us too - not like the dross that usually gets cut adrift by this point.

The best way to judge is probably to take the average teams - the ones in mid table - and I reckon they're probably the same standard as ever.

I've quickly done the last 10 years and the average is:

5th (last PO place up until two seasons ago) - 79 (ranges from 77-81)
12th (mid-table) - 62 (ranges from 58-67)
20th (place above relegation) - 49 (ranges from 44-54)

Extrapolated out, this season will be 78, 68 and 51 so mid-table is bumped up with the lack of high points total top sides.

Bromley are currently on course to win the league with a points total of just above the average 5th placed side and as I say, 10 year average is around the 99 mark for 1st and 90 for 2nd). Unusual for top sides not be averages 2ppg, though.

Won't make too much, if any, difference but 2009/10 and 2010/11 ran with 23 sides by the looks of it.

So the overall standard for most of the division is unchanged from a point total point of view with little fluctuation down the years but there's been a massive drop off in top quality sides since 2016/17 where Macclesfield and Orient won the league with lower than average totals (92 and 89 respectively) and this season looking like a further drop at the minute.

 

[DontBringBertie]

If the league was only played on a Saturday we'd be top

We've lost 5 games, 4 on a Tuesday night. Notts County had a nice relaxing day on Tuesday before our game, we had players at work until 5.30 !

It’s mainly due to how our matches have been scheduled though.

Our Tuesday losses have been:

Aldershot (we always lose to them regardless)
Yeovil away (2nd)
Bromley away (top)
Notts County (7th and probably biggest budget in the league)

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I've quickly done the last 10 years and the average is:

5th (last PO place up until two seasons ago) - 79 (ranges from 77-81)
12th (mid-table) - 62 (ranges from 58-67)
20th (place above relegation) - 49 (ranges from 44-54)

Extrapolated out, this season will be 78, 68 and 51 so mid-table is bumped up with the lack of high points total top sides.

Bromley are currently on course to win the league with a points total of just above the average 5th placed side and as I say, 10 year average is around the 99 mark for 1st and 90 for 2nd). Unusual for top sides not be averages 2ppg, though.

Won't make too much, if any, difference but 2009/10 and 2010/11 ran with 23 sides by the looks of it.

So the overall standard for most of the division is unchanged from a point total point of view with little fluctuation down the years but there's been a massive drop off in top quality sides since 2016/17 where Macclesfield and Orient won the league with lower than average totals (92 and 89 respectively) and this season looking like a further drop at the minute.

I would say that Lincoln’s run to the quarter- finals of the cup is a better indicator that that team was of a high standard than how many points they got.

As others have said, it seems obvious that more full time teams will make the league closer and so the top teams will get fewer points. I’m not even sure how many part time teams there are this season?

 

[DontBringBertie]

I would say that Lincoln’s run to the quarter- finals of the cup is a better indicator that that team was of a high standard than how many points they got.

As others have said, it seems obvious that more full time teams will make the league closer and so the top teams will get fewer points. I’m not even sure how many part time teams there are this season?

I think it might be just us and maybe Chorley?

 

[simonfromsurrey]

Yep, just us two. And they need snookers already

5 wins and a few scabby draws from 27 games will keep us up

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

If the league was only played on a Saturday we'd be top

We've lost 5 games, 4 on a Tuesday night. Notts County had a nice relaxing day on Tuesday before our game, we had players at work until 5.30 !

The Keeper could of had a full weeks holiday from work prior to that game and he ain't getting close to that first hit.

Naturally it's tough for the part timers

 

[Monkey Tennis]

I've quickly done the last 10 years and the average is:

5th (last PO place up until two seasons ago) - 79 (ranges from 77-81)
12th (mid-table) - 62 (ranges from 58-67)
20th (place above relegation) - 49 (ranges from 44-54)

Extrapolated out, this season will be 78, 68 and 51 so mid-table is bumped up with the lack of high points total top sides.

Bromley are currently on course to win the league with a points total of just above the average 5th placed side and as I say, 10 year average is around the 99 mark for 1st and 90 for 2nd). Unusual for top sides not be averages 2ppg, though.

Won't make too much, if any, difference but 2009/10 and 2010/11 ran with 23 sides by the looks of it.

So the overall standard for most of the division is unchanged from a point total point of view with little fluctuation down the years but there's been a massive drop off in top quality sides since 2016/17 where Macclesfield and Orient won the league with lower than average totals (92 and 89 respectively) and this season looking like a further drop at the minute.

Personally, I don't see how the number of points is an indicator of quality. We could all have squads like Barcelona and draw every game.

Determining whether it is stronger or weaker can only ever be subjective - I do agree with the poster that says Lincoln's FA Cup success shows they were probably stronger then. But then you could say the higher divisions were weaker that year. It's all opinion.

All I can say is that there are fewer teams that look completely useless, and more teams seem to be well set up and playing decent football. Overall though, there is no obvious difference in standard between now and any other season since we got promoted back to this level.

 

[jacobncfc]

The lack of part time teams has to be making a difference - it may be coincidence but we’ve played Chorley and Woking in midweek games and absolutely demolished both of them in a way we’ve not really threaten to against anyone else.

Obviously I never took as much of an interest in this league until this year, but weren’t far more teams part time even just a couple of years ago?

 

[simonfromsurrey]

The league was nearly 100% part time until Rushden & Diamonds came in and ruined it. Everyone felt the only way to compete was to try and outdo them by either spending stupid money or going full time (or both)

Even though we average over 2000 we just cant afford to go full time.

 

[chipmunx]

realistically you need to be full time to go up and in most cases to stay up for more than a season or 2 as well.
But you can be full time with a squad of 20 players and compete;- at Barrow we apparently have the 3rd or 4th smallest playing budget in the league and we are competitive this season - you don't need getting on for 30 or more players which teams like Wrexham and Notts probably have (?).
Macclesfield went up as champions a few seasons ago with the lowest budget in the league - so the right manager and players is just as important if not more so than money.

 

[Luke Imp]

I would say that Lincoln’s run to the quarter- finals of the cup is a better indicator that that team was of a high standard than how many points they got.

As others have said, it seems obvious that more full time teams will make the league closer and so the top teams will get fewer points. I’m not even sure how many part time teams there are this season?

Maybe, but Cup games are one-offs where anything can happen although we actually didn't fluke our way through that season.

The second XI (well, second 8 with 3 first teamers in normally) also got to the FA Trophy semi-final.

Personally, I don't see how the number of points is an indicator of quality. We could all have squads like Barcelona and draw every game.

Determining whether it is stronger or weaker can only ever be subjective - I do agree with the poster that says Lincoln's FA Cup success shows they were probably stronger then. But then you could say the higher divisions were weaker that year. It's all opinion.

All I can say is that there are fewer teams that look completely useless, and more teams seem to be well set up and playing decent football. Overall though, there is no obvious difference in standard between now and any other season since we got promoted back to this level.

Well, yeah, but leagues don't work like having 24 Barcelona's.

I'd agree it's all subjective, and I'm well out the loop now anyway, but the numbers are suggesting that the points total of the top sides have been on the decline since 2016/17 and look like they'll be made up in mid-table positions this season.

That doesn't necessarily translate to a poor league overall, but it shows to me that that the quality at the top end of the league isn't as great over the last couple of seasons and this. I know you're saying points isn't an indicator of quality but you don't hit high 90's if you're a poor side.

The lack of part time teams has to be making a difference - it may be coincidence but we’ve played Chorley and Woking in midweek games and absolutely demolished both of them in a way we’ve not really threaten to against anyone else.

Obviously I never took as much of an interest in this league until this year, but weren’t far more teams part time even just a couple of years ago?

Got to remember that some Clubs use the PT tag because they only pay July to May and not through the summer so it's more of a reflection of their contract policy than how often they train and having a squad full of players who have 'proper' jobs.

In terms of actual, proper PT sides i.e. two evenings a week I doubt there's too much of a difference.

 

[EnglishRed]

realistically you need to be full time to go up and in most cases to stay up for more than a season or 2 as well.
But you can be full time with a squad of 20 players and compete;- at Barrow we apparently have the 3rd or 4th smallest playing budget in the league and we are competitive this season - you don't need getting on for 30 or more players which teams like Wrexham and Notts probably have (?).
Macclesfield went up as champions a few seasons ago with the lowest budget in the league - so the right manager and players is just as important if not more so than money.

30 players?

We have 26 registered first team players. 3 of them are youth players (2 of which are out on loan) and 1 (Manny Smith) has been injured since the end of August 2018. Expect a couple of players to leave soon as well.