The International Friendlies thread

[Reaper]

Sorry but this St Mirren fan is talking absolute nonsense on just about everything.

Kyle Walker is dreadful but the likes of Pochettino and Guardiola 2 of the best coaches in world football seem to rate him highly.

Kane wouldn't get ahead of Griezmann in a combined team but Griezmann is a winger/playmaker so they both would be in the team together, stupid comment.

No English players wouldn't get on the French bench. Well im gonna put down my opinion of the best combined French/England X1 and if anybody thinks i've left out a player that should be in then im happy to debate.

Lloris
Walker, Varane, Koscielny, Rose
Pogba, Kante, Dele
Griezmann, Kane, Payet

 

[Super_horns]

Phil Jones has said we are on a par with France squad wise and it was just a bad game for us..

Well we won't get anywhere if that is the deluded attitude the players have..

Guess Jones is trying to curry favour with the England management as clearly he probably shouldn't even be in the squad anyway.

 

[Super_horns]

.

India, meanwhile, frequently has the best cricket side.

.

Well maybe in ODI cricket but certainly not in tests...

England, South Africa and the Aussies would argue they are as good on a decent day.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Phil Jones has said we are on a par with France squad wise and it was just a bad game for us..

Well we won't get anywhere if that is the deluded attitude the players have..

Guess Jones is trying to curry favour with the England management as clearly he probably shouldn't even be in the squad anyway.

I thought he did better than Cahill and Stones to be honest.

 

[St. Juste]

Sorry but this St Mirren fan is talking absolute nonsense on just about everything.

Kyle Walker is dreadful but the likes of Pochettino and Guardiola 2 of the best coaches in world football seem to rate him highly.

Kane wouldn't get ahead of Griezmann in a combined team but Griezmann is a winger/playmaker so they both would be in the team together, stupid comment.

No English players wouldn't get on the French bench. Well im gonna put down my opinion of the best combined French/England X1 and if anybody thinks i've left out a player that should be in then im happy to debate.

Lloris
Walker, Varane, Koscielny, Rose
Pogba, Kante, Dele
Griezmann, Kane, Payet

There is absolutely no evidence that Guardiola rates Walker - transfer rumours do not count as evidence.

As for Pochettino, it's quite telling that Walker did not play any of Spurs three away CL matches or the FA Cup semi final, and was dropped for the final few games of the season. It's clear that Pochettino does not trust Walker, especially in big games. He can play him in the Premier League, because running fast in a straight line makes you a good player in a league where the standard has plummeted in recent years.

The notion that he, or Rose, would get ahead of the excellent rampaging Monaco full backs who did so brilliantly in the Champions League? Good grief.

But that's not even necessarily the worst sin, Alli, an attacking midfielder who has never played in a midfield 3 his entire career starting ahead of a world class performer like, say, Matuidi? Or maybe another player who impressed in the CL, which Spurs were dumped out of, in Rabiot who actually plays that position? Astonishing. 9 of those 11 have played in the Premier League - 8 still do. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever watched any other league in your life?

Rounded off with placing Payet ahead of Mbappe and Dembele. It's no wonder England do so badly, the players are probably as deluded and ignorant of other leagues as the fans.

Well maybe in ODI cricket but certainly not in tests...

England, South Africa and the Aussies would argue they are as good on a decent day.

Cricket maybe wasn't the best example, I forgot the "England" team was a catch all phrase that meant pretty much every nationality.

 

[JimJams]

Danny Simpson did well in the Champions league. So how excellent is he?
And on the subject of Poch dropping Walker, he replaced with Trippier, so does that make him better then?
Obs not. Both English.

 

[St. Juste]

Danny Simpson did well in the Champions league. So how excellent is he?
And on the subject of Poch dropping Walker, he replaced with Trippier, so does that make him better then?
Obs not. Both English.

To answer that question I'd have to agree that Danny Simpson performed exceptionally in the Champions League. And I don't.

It makes Trippier better than Walker, quite a bit better I think, but it doesn't make Trippier better than Sidibe.

Honestly, do people really think Walker is better at Sibide? Better at what, exactly? It's an astonishing claim! Sidibe was fantastic and won many plaudits in the Champions League last season as Monaco made it to the CL - Spurs fell at the first hurdle and Walker was dropped from their most important games that season. It's not even close.

 

[JimJams]

But how much of Sidibe have you seen? At Lille he played at left back for the majority of the time. He got his move to Monaco on the strength of his performances on the left. He's had one season at rightback and played just over half a seasons worth of games. He's done well but Mendy is the fullback thats got the majority of the accolades. Sidibe hasnt been any better than Fabinho when he was moved out of position to play there the season prior. Monaco just didnt have any decent rightbacks. It looks like the plaudits are somewhat overstepping the mark.
Spurs doing poorly in the CL was more about Poch not being arsed about it. It seemed he was far more interested in the league from the outset.

 

[Reaper]

There is absolutely no evidence that Guardiola rates Walker - transfer rumours do not count as evidence.

As for Pochettino, it's quite telling that Walker did not play any of Spurs three away CL matches or the FA Cup semi final, and was dropped for the final few games of the season. It's clear that Pochettino does not trust Walker, especially in big games. He can play him in the Premier League, because running fast in a straight line makes you a good player in a league where the standard has plummeted in recent years.

The notion that he, or Rose, would get ahead of the excellent rampaging Monaco full backs who did so brilliantly in the Champions League? Good grief.

But that's not even necessarily the worst sin, Alli, an attacking midfielder who has never played in a midfield 3 his entire career starting ahead of a world class performer like, say, Matuidi? Or maybe another player who impressed in the CL, which Spurs were dumped out of, in Rabiot who actually plays that position? Astonishing. 9 of those 11 have played in the Premier League - 8 still do. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever watched any other league in your life?

Rounded off with placing Payet ahead of Mbappe and Dembele. It's no wonder England do so badly, the players are probably as deluded and ignorant of other leagues as the fans.



Cricket maybe wasn't the best example, I forgot the "England" team was a catch all phrase that meant pretty much every nationality.

Walker will end up at Man City by the the start of the season fact. Only reason why Trippier has been getting picked is because Walker was recently injured and his mind as been elsewhere.

Danny Rose has been excellent this season before he got that bad injury and was also linked to Man City before he got the injury and turned to plan B which was Mendy.

Dele Alli can play in a midfield 3, i was at wembley when we played Lithuania and he played in a midfield 3 and he has done on a few occasions for Tottenham as well. Matuidi is a different type of midfielder to Dele Alli because he's a defending midfielder like Kante but i rate Kante just ahead of him.

No doubt Mbappe and Dembele are huge talents but their both not full developed and i just rate Kane and Payet ahead atm but in a couple of years time France are gonna be the best side in the worls with all the young talent coming through on top of having the likes of Varane, Pogba and Griezmann ect.

 

[mistermagic]

Additionally Kyle Walker is better than the French options. Sidibe, Jallet are the sides weakest area.

Yes. Since Debuchy broke his leg just after the World Cup we've been pretty poor in this position. Our right side has been an ongoing problem for decades. When we won the World Cup our RB was a CB (Thuram) and most of our play was down the left wing (Lizarazu-Zidane-Dugarry) because Djorkaeff liked to go inside rather than stay on the line. A decade on, all our players seemed to have excelled on the left rather than the right (Govou is the only proper RW I can think of and he never was international class).
We do have Arnaud Souquet from Nice being quite the prospect. He's been filling in whenever Ricardo Pereira was injured/out of form and Souquet has done well. Could get called up in the coming months. I don't like Sidibé. I'd describe him very much like our Scottish friend describes Walker (ineffectively as usual): gets a couple of plaudits because he's quick but he has very little defensive nous.

it's certainly part of the reason, yes. Indeed, France of all nations benefit most from their diaspora - historical and cultural links with North and Western Africa have benefited them enormously in footballing terms

I wonder how many Front National supports are against second and third generation immigrants such as....Pogba, Zidane, Griezmann, Henry, Thuram etc. They are a extraordinary success story, and demonstrate why other nations should be looking to drastically increase immigration, not reduce it.

We got rid of the morons (Ben Arfa, Benzema and Nasri). You need to make the chav-cut to play for France these days which is good.

On the game, I invited my close family to the game and we had a good time. I was quite disappointed though at how little England brought to Paris and how quiet they were. On the game itself, I thought Varane was outstanding at the back and that flashing a red card is 100% the video's fault (without it, the ref would have pointed to the spot without further squeamish) and I'm happy Dembélé finally delivered. His previous appearances for the France shirt were reminiscent of a Theo Walcott or a Raheem Sterling: got the legs but zero finish.
For England, I liked that Southgate went with 3 at the back. He knows that England aren't as technically gifted as we are and England were in the game for much of the match as a result (yes, helped by the red card). Kane really does look hard to defend against. His performance on Tuesday reminded me of an Alan Shearer in his prime. And he can score from the spot. Good on him.

 

[smat]

Pickford; Trippier, Jones, Stones, Maguire, Rose; Livermore, Loftus-Cheek, Dier; Vardy, Abraham.

 

[mente captus]

We should already be 2:0 up

 

[DarkSithLord]

France 1-0 up on Wales thanks to Griezzmann

 

[Pagnell]

You have to feel for the commentators as they desperately scrabble around for something to say in these bullshit fixtures. I'd rather be watching Corrie.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

RLC has done well, we should have scored with one of those before half time.

 

[DarkSithLord]

France 2-0 Wales now. Oliver Groud

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Well, for a thrown together rag tag side, that was alright.

 

[Dirk]

What a boring game in the 2nd half. It was more interesting to watch the flying paper planes than the match. The first half was okay. I don't know why I even watch friendlies. We are shite in friendlies. Anyway, no loss against England in England since 1975. Series intact.

 

[Benji]

France were clearly the better team, but I think it would be hard to argue that they aren't one of the top 5 international teams in the world right now. We looked better when we brought three teenagers on, which I guess is a good thing. Hopefully Bale is going to be fit in the near future. Ashley Williams is increasingly concerning with his lack of pace.

 

[JimJams]

And ability...

 

[mistermagic]

France were clearly the better team, but I think it would be hard to argue that they aren't one of the top 5 international teams in the world right now. We looked better when we brought three teenagers on, which I guess is a good thing. Hopefully Bale is going to be fit in the near future. Ashley Williams is increasingly concerning with his lack of pace.

We're not very good at scoring against sides sitting deep (which is pretty much the whole world aside from a handful of teams). We should have scored a lot more. Our talent isn't exactly wasted but we should do much better with the likes of Griezmann, Mbappe and Fekir in the side (not Coman, he's rubbish).
We shall see but I reckon we'll bow out against the first decent side we meet in Russia.

Wales were alright. Gave a good account of themselves and forced Mandanda into a couple of good saves.

 

[Super_horns]

As it turned out the game wasn't bad for a 0/0.

Both teams looking to attack and had chances.

Pickford and Loftus Cheek pick of the new boys.

Can tell how England miss Kane up front though and Germany had more technical ability as you'd expect.

Still as I say better than I thought it might be.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

What a boring game in the 2nd half. It was more interesting to watch the flying paper planes than the match. The first half was okay. I don't know why I even watch friendlies. We are shite in friendlies. Anyway, no loss against England in England since 1975. Series intact.

How depressing. England last beat Germany in England 9 years before I was born..!!

England were ranked 5th in the world at that time. We're currently 12th, up from 15th in September.

Germany were 1st in 1975. Still are in 2017. At least some things don't change.

I don't like these friendlies. They affect the world rankings - and not for the better. It's highly likely that when the world cup draw takes place, England will be in Pot 2* so should get out of their group but it's a close run thing. There is only 82 points between 12th and the 17th place which would have put us in Pot 3 and the risk of another calamitous draw like the Italy / Uruguay mountain-to-climb draw of 2014 .

I've been having a look at the rankings system and can see how unfavourably friendlies can affect teams on the fringes of the seedings. It's something our utterly clueless FA obviously haven't thought of or they wouldn't commit us to these meaningless matches.

Germany's place in Pot 1 is assured. They can play anybody they like, make a shedload of money out of it and nobody would blame them for that. But the FA should be more circumspect about committing England to matches that could adversely affect their standing in the future.

We've gotten away with it this time. Let's hope the draw on 1 December is kind.




* The rankings produced on 16 October have been used to determine the Pot numbers for the world cup draw. Fresh rankings are due out on 23 November but these are too close to the draw to be used. It might be interesting to see where England are ranked in November.

 

[SALTIRE]

Cardona doing a slant-eye gesture towards South Korean opponents in a friendly yesterday. Hope they throw the book at him.

 

[Stevencc]

South American footballers have been disgracing themselves, and by extension the entire population of the continent, recently.

 

[mente captus]

How depressing. England last beat Germany in England 9 years before I was born..!!

It was the first time since 1975 that we did not ran out as winners at Wembley vs England. The 6 matches between 1975 and 2017 were all won by us

 

[AFCB_Mark]

It was the first time since 1975 that we did not ran out as winners at Wembley vs England. The 6 matches between 1975 and 2017 were all won by us

Believe it's level pegging on all time wins between the two? Deadlock wasn't broken this time around.

13 wins apiece and 6 draws apparently
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41854505

Maybe next time you'll manage to take the lead.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Believe it's level pegging on all time wins between the two? Deadlock wasn't broken this time around.

13 wins apiece and 6 draws apparently
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41854505

Maybe next time you'll manage to take the lead.

Mark, perhaps you can clear something up for me. I'd appreciate it.

In the matches between England and Germany, where the final score has been a draw, but Germany has won the penalty shoot out, is this result recorded in the head-to-head statistics as a drawn match?

I think it should because the final score, say, 1-1 is a draw and the penalty shoot out is merely a tie-breaker to determine who proceeds to the next stage of the tournament. I suggest that this is also the reason why penalties scored in the shoot out do not count as goals scored for statistical purposes.

If this is indeed the case, then at this time our World Cup head to head would stand at Played 5 England 1 win, 2 draws and 2 defeats. Goals for 8, Goals against 10.

Overall, the figures would stand at played 32 with England 13 wins, 6 draws and 13 defeats. Goals scored 51, goals against 42

That's actually reveals a much closer head-to-head record between the two countries than popular opinion would have us believe. OK, so most of England's wins are historic and Germany have certainly been in the ascendant in the last forty or so years, but I'm looking at the overall picture while trying to clear up this penalty shoot out thingy in my own mind.

Can you or another poster on here confirm I'm right on this, or if not, then explain the rationale behind penalty shoot outs turning a match where the game scores are level, into a defeat.

Signed
Puzzled of Penzance.

 

[Dirk]

Overall, the figures would stand at played 32 with England 13 wins, 6 draws and 13 defeats. Goals scored 51, goals against 42

The German FA (DFB) also counts the pre World War 1 results (where Germany only had Amateurs on the field and were badly beaten by the professionals of England in 1909 (9-0). For the DFB we already made 36 matches against England with 13 Wins (all after 1968) -7 Draws - 16 losses. So England still has a positive record against us because of these ancient amateurs.

https://www.dfb.de/die-mannschaft/statistik/spielbilanz-gegen/?spieledb_path=/teams/compare/479/547

Our first win against England was only in 1968.
Before the formation of the Bundesliga in 1963 we lost nearly all matches against England. But after 1963 and the establishing of professional football in Germany our record against England is positive.

OK, so most of England's wins are historic and Germany have certainly been in the ascendant in the last forty or so years
.

We were 12 years earlier World Champions than England and we didn't even need the home soil for it.

Can you or another poster on here confirm I'm right on this, or if not, then explain the rationale behind penalty shoot outs turning a match where the game scores are level, into a defeat.

Signed
Puzzled of Penzance.

The matches which are decided in a penalty shootout are counted as a win for the statistics (with scoring result after 120 minutes)
For example; In 1996 we won the shootout with 6-5 but for the scoring it will be counted as a 1-1 (the result after 120 min). And in 1990 we won the shootout with 5-4. It is counted as a win but with the score of 1-1 (after 120 min)

then explain the rationale behind penalty shoot outs turning a match where the game scores are level, into a defeat.

tbh I don't count these penalty shootouts wins as a "real" win (only against Italy in 2016 because well , it's against Italy ).
For me, these wins are "asterisk" wins (a win with an * at it ) because it had to be a winner in this tournament stages (or otherwise you would have to play again, not practible nowadays)

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Thanks for that, Dirk. I appreciate the clarification.

I can see "asterisk" wins. it helps to clarify the picture. I don't have a problem with that.

With regard to your comment on professionals, I'm going to do some more digging on that because I read a football history book from my local library not long ago which I am sure said that although club football in England became professional in the late 19th century, the FA would not allow professionals to represent England until much later and even when they relented, they insisted on the England Captain being an amateur right up to (I think) the mid 1930's. The next time I go to the library I'll dig that book out again. It really is a gold mine of information and history. I'll post a few snippets from it which I'm sure some readers here may find enlightening / amusing, even.


As for not winning on home soil in 1954. Switzerland. Hmmmm. Close. But OK, fair point.

You got your second one at home though.