European Union Referendum

How do you see yourself voting?


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silkyman

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Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
Returning back to how it was and forgetting everything is not an option but that's what those organising this march would have us do.
No. It was to give the public a chance to vote on the final deal. We can never go back to how things were, and nor should we. For many, the referendum was a protest vote about Cameron and 'the establishment' so if nothing else, it needs to shine a light on issues caused by our own sovereign government though needless austerity.
 

Habbinalan

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Cnutish bufoon, Boris Johnson: "For the first time in a thousand years this place [parliament] will have no say in the laws that govern this country."

1,000 years ago, not only was there no Parliament, not only is "Parliament" a word introduced by Francophones who conquered England, not only had Parliament no role in Scotland, Wales or Ireland then, but England was ruled by a Dane, Cnut the Great.
 

Laker

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What does the new Brexit shit mean? Does single customs just mean nothing changes?
No one knows yet. But sounds out it’s not Brexity enough for Brexiteers and not Remainy enough for Remainers. So will almost certainly be voted against in parliament by practically everyone besides the cabinet.
 

AFCB_Mark

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A single unitary authority for urban Dorset
No one knows yet. But sounds out it’s not Brexity enough for Brexiteers and not Remainy enough for Remainers. So will almost certainly be voted against in parliament by practically everyone besides the cabinet.
Very well put!

Freedom of movement ends. Although there will be no visa requirements for holiday makers and the like which seems sensible. That Brexiteers are still going nuts suggests FoM wasn't as central an issue as was made out?

We keep paying in lots of money to (help Germany) keep the EU books balanced for now. About 40bn between now and 2021ish.

We stay in a customs union, at least for the medium term, to avoid the Irish border problem. At some point this may (or may not) be superseded by a future agreement. So that can might reappear down the road sometime?

The ECJ retains a fair bit of sway over UK legal system, when relating to any matters EU deems relevant to the withdrawal. Partly so the EU can ensure we don't become a massive tax haven, I think.

That's about as much as I've been able to process so far. The markets seem happy so far, that it's not going to be a big economic bump. Which tells you how soft a brexit it is, in a nutshell.
 

silkyman

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Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
Cnutish bufoon, Boris Johnson: "For the first time in a thousand years this place [parliament] will have no say in the laws that govern this country."

1,000 years ago, not only was there no Parliament, not only is "Parliament" a word introduced by Francophones who conquered England, not only had Parliament no role in Scotland, Wales or Ireland then, but England was ruled by a Dane, Cnut the Great.
So this deal is losing us the *checks notes* sovereignty that we were *checks notes again* taking back, because we had *checks notes a third time* lost it to the EU?

I’m confused.
 

silkyman

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Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
Two resignations already today.

Some nobody and Raab.

It’s all crashing down.
 

AFCB_Mark

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Raab going is a bit of a head scratcher on the face of it. You'd think he'd have been closely involved with putting the agreement together in the first place, being the Sec of State for Brexit and all?

A statement to the Commons to come at 10.30, so that'll be interesting.
 

Laker

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Yep, it’s a deal which satisfies no one so hardly surprising there’s resignations. It’s basically Brexit in name only.
 

AFCB_Mark

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A single unitary authority for urban Dorset
Raab going is a bit of a head scratcher on the face of it. You'd think he'd have been closely involved with putting the agreement together in the first place, being the Sec of State for Brexit and all?

A statement to the Commons to come at 10.30, so that'll be interesting.
Ah apparently Raab's proposal/preference for this agreement hinged on the customs union backstop being possible for us to unilaterally withdrawn from in future. That was a 'red line' for him in terms of the level of independence. But No.10 conceded on that, and what ended up being agreed was that we can only leave the customs union if the EU agree, or something to that effect. Hence he's gone off in a huff with No.10.
 

Laker

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Ah apparently Raab's proposal/preference for this agreement hinged on the customs union backstop being possible for us to unilaterally withdrawn from in future. That was a 'red line' for him in terms of the level of independence. But No.10 conceded on that, and what ended up being agreed was that we can only leave the customs union if the EU agree, or something to that effect. Hence he's gone off in a huff with No.10.
Which is akin to remaining in the EU really, and actually more difficult to leave than invoking article 50 as the EU could just flat out say no.
 

Super_horns

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Chances of this deal actually being approved in Parliament?

Feel we will either leave with no deal or there will be another vote .

Doubt May will last very long ..
 

AFCB_Mark

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Chances of this deal actually being approved in Parliament?

Feel we will either leave with no deal or there will be another vote .

Doubt May will last very long ..
When we have the DUP and Jeremy Corbyn both voicing their view of voting the deal down (since when do those two agree on anything?) getting it through Parliament seems unlikely.

Would that leave us with a General Election?

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Ebeneezer Goode

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It's not even really a deal though is it? It's like a pre-deal stop gap until they actually reach a deal. Maybe I'm missing something or my expectations were just much lower than everyone else's, but it's better than I expected the Tories to serve up, assuming this temporary customs agreement is actually temporary, and not just the establishment weaning us onto a fake Brexit.

I think freedom of movement is still at the crux of it. The Tories have to look like they'll end it cheaply and the eurocrats have to look like they won't, so ultimately how they proceed should come down to how much the "four freedoms" matter to the EU behind the scenes. They obviously care in principle, but in practical terms how much of a concession really is it to allow Britain to control it's borders if it means free trade is guaranteed to resume?

You have to wonder whether this interim period will be used to convince Britons that keeping a customs union would be no great sacrifice, or convince the European community that conceding border control to Britain for free trade is no great price at all. The fact that they slipped the VISA-less holiday travel carrot in there makes me cautiously hopeful it could be the latter.
 

silkyman

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Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
The EU have said that they won’t waste any more time on negotiations on this.

So we have three options.

A shit deal.
An even shitter no deal.
Kick the whole thing into the long grass and movement on with life.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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Ah apparently Raab's proposal/preference for this agreement hinged on the customs union backstop being possible for us to unilaterally withdrawn from in future. That was a 'red line' for him in terms of the level of independence. But No.10 conceded on that, and what ended up being agreed was that we can only leave the customs union if the EU agree, or something to that effect.
Oh well fuck that then. Hard Brexit baby.
 

Laker

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Yep the intention from leavers was not to don the hard hats and brace for cover but to actively push look for better opportunities as the perception is the EU has been holding us back.

That’s not really where we are with this fudged deal. I don’t see how it could possibly be supported by anyone.
 

Indian Dan

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I’m glad I’m fucking off to Greece early next year and leave this clusterfuck in all your capable hands.
Mama Mia!
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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At least in a decade or so when we're doing fine we can all look back at hysterical Twitter posts about the economic apocalypse that didn't materialise. Well, it would be nice if that were to happen at least, more likely we'll just forget, like we did the claims that not adopting the Euro would sink us too.
 

TractorBoys

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I genuinelly couldn't give a fuck if we're in or we're out, but as Ebeenezer alludes too, if you're one of the bellends citing chaos and hard times as a result of either, have a word with yourself. Deluded fools, the world will keep turning and the UK economy will be fine.
 

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