European Union Referendum

[Benji]

Its nearly the end of 2017 and Ebeneezer Goode is still smitten with Nige.

 

[Techno Natch]

He's also against the drug war so I'll vote for him if he stands. He's more honest than most of the bastard's.

 

[silkyman]

Watching dicks like Banks and Farage have a collective hissy fit over this has been lovely.

Paying £50bn to have a slightly worse trade deal with the EU and everything else stay pretty much the same.

Brilliant. Well done everyone.

 

[Abertawe]

Watching dicks like Banks and Farage have a collective hissy fit over this has been lovely.

Paying £50bn to have a slightly worse trade deal with the EU and everything else stay pretty much the same.

Brilliant. Well done everyone.

the detail hasn't been disclosed nor has it been agreed by the cabinet & EU.

 

[silkyman]

https://www.ft.com/content/b48e4f3a-dc0e-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

‘We’ll be free to trade with the world’ they shouted.

How long do you think Nissan would last in the UK if we did pull out of the single market and customs union? Where would you want your factory? In the trading bloc that you have a full deal with, or next door on the other side of a brick wall with not enough doors in it?

 

[silkyman]

the detail hasn't been disclosed nor has it been agreed by the cabinet & EU.

What other option is there? No deal suicide?

 

[Abertawe]

paying for access doesn't exclude us from trading with the rest of the world you tribal simpleton.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

What other option is there? No deal suicide?

It should be voted against until a deal with Ireland over the border can be reached. That little caveat is basically a loophole inserted into the agreement to allow the government to betray the public on freedom of movement.

 

[smat]

It should be voted against until a deal with Ireland over the border can be reached. That little caveat is basically a loophole inserted into the agreement to allow the government to betray the public on freedom of movement.

Love too be betrayed on freedom of movement.

 

[Abertawe]

Love too be betrayed on freedom of movement.

smat must hate working class people - sad.

 

[silkyman]

paying for access doesn't exclude us from trading with the rest of the world you tribal simpleton.

Yes! We must walk away from the EU (and their silly trade deals with Japan and Canada) to be able to trade with Japan and Canada with deals that won’t be as good as the one the EU has just got after years of work. And we’ll do it all in a year...

Think of the opportunities in Botswana.

 

[silkyman]

A brexit voter, yesterday....

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/939163176670601216

 

[Abertawe]

Yes! We must walk away from the EU (and their silly trade deals with Japan and Canada) to be able to trade with Japan and Canada with deals that won’t be as good as the one the EU has just got after years of work. And we’ll do it all in a year...

Think of the opportunities in Botswana.

bizarre. we've saved your children and you can't even see it.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Yes! We must walk away from the EU (and their silly trade deals with Japan and Canada) to be able to trade with Japan and Canada with deals that won’t be as good as the one the EU has just got after years of work.

It took so long to get because the EU is a place full of wildly diverse economic realities that all needed catering to, no point having a voice with the weight of the EU behind it if it's not saying what you want it to. There's no reason why a trade deal with Japan or Canada outside the EU couldn't be better than one inside it, and that's before we get to the USA, India, China etc.

 

[Aber gas]

Dunno what you’re all still arguing about. We’re not leaving
LOL

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Jeremy will be gutted.

 

[Abertawe]

will the brexit heads in cabinet become political tumbleweed if they don't challenge May fairly shortly?

 

[Techno Natch]

If we don't secure control of our own boarder's it will be a utterly pointless process. I wanted to stay, but not leaving would now be much worse in my opinion. There are divisions that have been drawn in our own society that won't heal if we don't break away. Before you celebrate contemplate that this is the exact ammunition the likes of Britain first want. It makes me laugh when hysterical people say Farage because you have no idea what a fascist is.

 

[mowgli]

will the brexit heads in cabinet become political tumbleweed if they don't challenge May fairly shortly?

The leavers in the cabinet have kept quiet after May stiched us up even Jacob Rees-Mogg and Peter Bone which is surprising which makes me think moves are afoot to mount a leadership challenge in the new year to get rid of the weakest PM we've had since Ted Heath,she even makes Cameron look competant which takes some doing,i just hope i'm right.

 

[Abertawe]

The leavers in the cabinet have kept quiet after May stiched us up even Jacob Rees-Mogg and Peter Bone which is surprising which makes me think moves are afoot to mount a leadership challenge in the new year to get rid of the weakest PM we've had since Ted Heath,she even makes Cameron look competant which takes some doing,i just hope i'm right.

they have to otherwise they are politically finished.

 

[smat]

There's no reason why a trade deal with Japan or Canada outside the EU couldn't be better than one inside it, and that's before we get to the USA, India, China etc.

The Japan thing could be interesting - many Japanese businesses only invest so much in the UK because of the easy access to the EU. Now they have signed a trade deal directly WITH the EU at the exact moment the UK is making UK-EU trade harder. The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world - the UK is the sixth largest economy nation-by-nation. There is potentially not much of an incentive for Japan to conclude a trade deal with us, and we will be absolutely desperate, so if it gets done it will probably be shit. Similar story with Canada. The rest of the world is not going to come cap in hand to us (and as for the USA under Trump... lol).

Another symptom of many Brits (including several current government ministers) having vastly overestimated our global importance imo.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

In August the UK and Japan both made a formal commitment to strike a trade deal that would copycat the Japan-EU trade deal after we leave the EU. Obviously it's just hot air for the moment, but the signs don't appear to be negative.

 

[smat]

In August the UK and Japan both made a formal commitment to strike a trade deal that would copycat the Japan-EU trade deal after we leave the EU. Obviously it's just hot air for the moment, but the signs don't appear to be negative.

That's for an interim deal immediately after March 2019, presumably because Japan are worried about a no deal Brexit, so we don't really have any indications about what a full bespoke agreement would look like.

Besides which, if it's exactly the same as the EU-Japan one, how is that better?

 

[mnb089mnb]

Bad point Smat.

Get over it remoaner. You lost.

https://tinyurl.com/ybaeqg5l

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

That's for an interim deal immediately after March 2019, presumably because Japan are worried about a no deal Brexit, so we don't really have any indications about what a full bespoke agreement would look like.

Besides which, if it's exactly the same as the EU-Japan one, how is that better?

It's not, but the point of contention wasn't that we'd get a better deal, though I suppose we could if that's only an interim one. Then there's China, USA, India etc. to deal with, though potentially the deals that will have the biggest impact on the average person will be those we pursue with developing countries we can import from on the cheap, without getting cock-blocked by EU protectionism.

 

[smat]

It's not, but the point of contention wasn't that we'd get a better deal

Well that is what you said.

potentially the deals that will have the biggest impact on the average person will be those we pursue with developing countries we can import from on the cheap, without getting cock-blocked by EU protectionism.

Definitely, although imo it's very unlikely to be a positive impact.

 

[frog march]

Why didn't the question of the Irish border come up during the referendum? As far as I can tell it's an unanswerable question. You either have border control and ask to see passports, which will fuck the peace process, or you don't, and that means we'll essentially have free movement into the UK.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Why didn't the question of the Irish border come up during the referendum? As far as I can tell it's an unanswerable question. You either have border control and ask to see passports, which will fuck the peace process, or you don't, and that means we'll essentially have free movement into the UK.

I'm not sure that it does. You can give Irish citizens the legal freedom to move between the Republic and the North with no border without changing the legal status of all other EU citizens. Yes an EU citizen would be able to cross the border without being stopped, but they'd still be an illegal immigrant and be unable live and work here any more easily than if they were an Afghan coming here in the back of a lorry would.

 

[frog march]

I'm not sure that it does. You can give Irish citizens the legal freedom to move between the Republic and the North with no border without changing the legal status of all other EU citizens. Yes an EU citizen would be able to cross the border without being stopped, but they'd still be an illegal immigrant and be unable live and work here any more easily than if they were an Afghan coming here in the back of a lorry would.

The difference being they wouldn't have to sneak like an Afghan would. The type of work eastern europeans tend towards is often cash in hand (labouring and cleaning), so I think they could (and would) find work.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The difference being they wouldn't have to sneak like an Afghan would. The type of work eastern europeans tend towards is often cash in hand (labouring and cleaning), so I think they could (and would) find work.

I'm sceptical that hundreds of thousands of Europeans would voluntarily become illegal immigrants every year by travelling to Ireland and hopping the border. Maybe some would, but I suspect it would be a tolerable amount compared to the prospect of not getting a border deal with the Irish.