Conte up or down?

Bilo

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#32
Because a player did something silly on social media? Ok, bit weird but whatever.
Everything that has come out of that dressing room in the past five years speaks of a toxic dressing room with far more ego than talent. It’s a very dislikeable group of players to say the least.
 
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#33
It's a tired old media trope that people ought to have got wise to by now. Every time Chelsea underperform its because of "player power", in contrast to United, Liverpool or City, all of who have gone through a few managers but whose players are apparently angels. We're invited to believe that there's this group of players who are uniquely toxic and dysfunctional, which seems strange when you consider that they've helped the club to two Premier League titles, one League Cup and an FA Cup in the past four seasons (given the latter win, I can only think the players didn't read their downing tools memo properly). It's also weird when you consider that this theory has been around for so long that the personnel has dramatically changed in the intervening years. Terry was always supposed to be the chief baddy, but he's inconveniently departed, so I do rather wonder who the supposed ringleader is now.

I'm not saying that everything's hunky dory and has always been. Mourinho and Conte are both quite combustible characters so it would surprise me if they hadn't rubbed anyone up the wrong way, but for all the bluster about the players being awful I can't, beyond this Willian thing, remember very many open displays of dissent. Can anyone?

Personally, I think the biggest issue is the unwillingness on the part of the club to ever completely buy into the vision of any one manager. It means that whoever's at the helm is always somewhat hamstrung in the transfer market and aren't always able to bring in the personnel they want for their preferred system. There's also been a tendency not to back a manager after a successful season. I think this ultimately results in things becoming stale and some tension/frustration on the part of both manager and the playing staff surfaces as a result (see Conte repeatedly moaning about the club's transfer business etc).
 

Bilo

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#34
It's a tired old media trope that people ought to have got wise to by now. Every time Chelsea underperform its because of "player power", in contrast to United, Liverpool or City, all of who have gone through a few managers but whose players are apparently angels. We're invited to believe that there's this group of players who are uniquely toxic and dysfunctional, which seems strange when you consider that they've helped the club to two Premier League titles, one League Cup and an FA Cup in the past four seasons (given the latter win, I can only think the players didn't read their downing tools memo properly). It's also weird when you consider that this theory has been around for so long that the personnel has dramatically changed in the intervening years. Terry was always supposed to be the chief baddy, but he's inconveniently departed, so I do rather wonder who the supposed ringleader is now.

I'm not saying that everything's hunky dory and has always been. Mourinho and Conte are both quite combustible characters so it would surprise me if they hadn't rubbed anyone up the wrong way, but for all the bluster about the players being awful I can't, beyond this Willian thing, remember very many open displays of dissent. Can anyone?

Personally, I think the biggest issue is the unwillingness on the part of the club to ever completely buy into the vision of any one manager. It means that whoever's at the helm is always somewhat hamstrung in the transfer market and aren't always able to bring in the personnel they want for their preferred system. There's also been a tendency not to back a manager after a successful season. I think this ultimately results in things becoming stale and some tension/frustration on the part of both manager and the playing staff surfaces as a result (see Conte repeatedly moaning about the club's transfer business etc).
I hear what you're saying and while some of it may be stereotypical and exaggerated, the signs are there in ways there aren't at other clubs. None of the teams you compared this Chelsea squad with alternate between best in the country and completely underachievement quite like this Chelsea side. And indeed, this has been a culture seemingly there since the Terry-days and it was never going to be fixed by him leaving.

This, not to a small degree, is down to your club structure certainly, but again this doesn't help your argument. What Willian did here is one thing, but I've also never seen anything like it. Like jesus christ what the fuck is that? And it's not an incident in isolation, the reports of dissent this season came long before you started underperforming. I doubt it was a lucky shot by the media, and they're not harder on you than anyone else.

To be honest, when it comes to things like this in the end it's down to what you see on the pitch. And Chelsea have so, so many times reeked of a team wanting their manager gone. It goes the other way too, you can see for yourself when the eleven players out on the pitch are really fighting for the manager. Conte got so much stick for that City performance but I can not for the life of me imagine that he told Willian to stand three feet away from a City player in possession and do nothing. No marking, no pressing, nothing.

So take everyone's word for it, everything points to a toxic dressing room with serious player power issues. You win titles because you have one of the most talented squads in the country, but you've also missed CL football twice in the last three years. A functioning group doesn't switch like that.
 

Pagnell

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#35
Probably the best place to ask this, but are any Chelsea fans worried about Roman's current visa issues? After all, how much appeal will the club hold for him if he's not allowed into the country in which they're based? It looks like the British Government are playing hardball with these billionaire Russian's after the recent Skripal poisoning, especially for those that appear to have close ties to Putin.
 

BlueBee

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#36
Be very happy once Conte leaves. He's, on the face of it, done very well for us but the football he's produced has been Mourinho-esque this season. Losing the game at home to Spurs lost him a lot of fans at Stamford Bridge...as did the performnces away to City and Roma etc...
Teams have found us out after last seasons heroics and his inability to change it up has cost us big time this season.

The post by Willian was poor. No matter the situation between yourself and the manager you have to remain proffesional. Willian has been wonderful at times this season but this will leave a sour taste on it. I don't believe there's a problem in the dressing room....it really is just a case of underperforming and not getting the tactics right. Our business last summer was woeful too....Morata is possibly worse than Fernando Torres ever was for us, I genuinely struggle to think of player I've ever disliked more playing for this club. Bakayoko has only with about 2 weeks left of the season pulled out anything more than a 4/10 performance and signings of Drinkwater and Barkley genuinely baffle me considering the players we let go (Loftus Cheek for example).

Looks like we could be getting Sarri from Napoli...i won't pretend I know much about him but I've seen clips on Twitter of the type of football his Napoli side produced and it does excite me. Doesn't have much history bringing youth players through from what ive read which is a concern but I'm willing to believe that'll be down to a poor academy at Napoli.

Don't know if this is a permanent return to the forum but I'm sitting in bed here in Rio De Janeiro and I can't sleep...and then I remembered when I used to spend hours of my life writing nonsense on this forum.
 

Stevencc

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#38
Be very happy once Conte leaves. He's, on the face of it, done very well for us but the football he's produced has been Mourinho-esque this season. Losing the game at home to Spurs lost him a lot of fans at Stamford Bridge...as did the performnces away to City and Roma etc...
Teams have found us out after last seasons heroics and his inability to change it up has cost us big time this season.

The post by Willian was poor. No matter the situation between yourself and the manager you have to remain proffesional. Willian has been wonderful at times this season but this will leave a sour taste on it. I don't believe there's a problem in the dressing room....it really is just a case of underperforming and not getting the tactics right. Our business last summer was woeful too....Morata is possibly worse than Fernando Torres ever was for us, I genuinely struggle to think of player I've ever disliked more playing for this club. Bakayoko has only with about 2 weeks left of the season pulled out anything more than a 4/10 performance and signings of Drinkwater and Barkley genuinely baffle me considering the players we let go (Loftus Cheek for example).

Looks like we could be getting Sarri from Napoli...i won't pretend I know much about him but I've seen clips on Twitter of the type of football his Napoli side produced and it does excite me. Doesn't have much history bringing youth players through from what ive read which is a concern but I'm willing to believe that'll be down to a poor academy at Napoli.

Don't know if this is a permanent return to the forum but I'm sitting in bed here in Rio De Janeiro and I can't sleep...and then I remembered when I used to spend hours of my life writing nonsense on this forum.
Probably, but there's still an option for him to piss off to Zenit instead, leaving you "stuck" with Conte.

The lack of youth integration won't be held against Sarri, Id have thought - it's not like Chelsea have a decent record with that either.
 

Skinner

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#39
Be very happy once Conte leaves. He's, on the face of it, done very well for us but the football he's produced has been Mourinho-esque this season. Losing the game at home to Spurs lost him a lot of fans at Stamford Bridge...as did the performnces away to City and Roma etc...
Teams have found us out after last seasons heroics and his inability to change it up has cost us big time this season.

The post by Willian was poor. No matter the situation between yourself and the manager you have to remain proffesional. Willian has been wonderful at times this season but this will leave a sour taste on it. I don't believe there's a problem in the dressing room....it really is just a case of underperforming and not getting the tactics right. Our business last summer was woeful too....Morata is possibly worse than Fernando Torres ever was for us, I genuinely struggle to think of player I've ever disliked more playing for this club. Bakayoko has only with about 2 weeks left of the season pulled out anything more than a 4/10 performance and signings of Drinkwater and Barkley genuinely baffle me considering the players we let go (Loftus Cheek for example).

Looks like we could be getting Sarri from Napoli...i won't pretend I know much about him but I've seen clips on Twitter of the type of football his Napoli side produced and it does excite me. Doesn't have much history bringing youth players through from what ive read which is a concern but I'm willing to believe that'll be down to a poor academy at Napoli.

Don't know if this is a permanent return to the forum but I'm sitting in bed here in Rio De Janeiro and I can't sleep...and then I remembered when I used to spend hours of my life writing nonsense on this forum.
Welcome back mate
 

mistermagic

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#42
I think he should be given another season. He won you the league by playing arguably the best footballin 16/17 but let go important players (MATIC) and replaced them with players that haven't performed (not saying that Bakayoko will be a transformed player next season but it could happen). Let him another window to straighten things out and see if he manages it.
 

Benji

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#43
He ended up being sacked the other day, but I think we all assumed it happened months ago.
 

Pagnell

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#46
Look at it any way you like, there is something a little distasteful in the manner the club is run. Trophies or no trophies, averaging a manager every 16 months isn't healthy. There isn't even medium term stability in that business model.
 

JimJams

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#48
The game is about winning trophies not long term employment.
The hire and fire policy seems to work for them.
Maybe one day they will run out of managers to sack.
But today is not that day!
 

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