Play offs should be 1-leg affairs

Luke Imp

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#31
I can see why the NL have changed their PO system, but I've always said that Championship down to L2 and possibly the NL should have the same amount of promotion and relegation places, so everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet and that, in my opinion, is 2 automatic and 1 play-off. Whether the NL is strong enough for 3 up is very questionable in my opinion and another discussion.

As for one leg ties, I'm not so sure. I understand why they do it in the NL (and it's BT, not Sky so there's another reason why it's been allowed to happen) and I agree with giving an advantage to the 2nd and 3rd placed teams, but not in the sense the winners of the first 'elimination games' have such a quick turnaround.

And as Dave says, they're one leg mainly for the NLN, NLS and below due to PT management/players and the travelling.
 

Chris FGR

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#32
The NL play-offs seemed a bit tinpot this year, no way should 7th get in and only having one leg 3 or 4 days after the end of the season in midweek seemed rushed and led to pretty poor crowds.

Having 2 legs is better, brings in more money for clubs and often better games.

I was happy with the old format, we finished 5th, 2nd and 3rd so saw all sides of it, being the lowest placed team and losing to 2nd playing away 2nd leg, beating 5th with home advantage 2nd leg but missing out on promotion in the final despite being miles ahead in the table and then reversing that last year by beating Tranmere who finished well clear in 2nd.

At the start of each season everyone knows what they have to do to go up and what gets you in the playoffs so don't see how it's unfair on anyone.
 

hellogregory

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#36
But they didn't. Tranmere came up instead. I'm sure people thought that Burton, Fleetwood and Accrington were shite too but they haven't done too badly.
Maybe three down would flush a bit more dead wood down
.
I may be wrong but didn’t Accrington Fleetwood and Burton all come up as champions? Then they deserve it. That’s my point. Let the champions come up, that’s it.
 

Laker

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#37
The idea of closing the Conference off by reducing it to one up is massively anti-competition and increases a drive to more shite clinging on at the bottom of League 2. Frankly, Grimsby, Port Vale and Morecambe were all worthwhile candidates for relegation but got away with it because there were only two spots to avoid.

Build in a proper promotion/relegation 3 up/3 down system and you’ll get a much more “natural” flow of clubs being in the correct league. The only reason for not bringing it in is protectionism from those clubs scared of being too shite to avoid the drop.
 

denzel ecfc

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#38
I may be wrong but didn’t Accrington Fleetwood and Burton all come up as champions? Then they deserve it. That’s my point. Let the champions come up, that’s it.
Yes and Exeter, Tranmere, Cambridge (I think) and York all went up via the playoffs so would be condemned for ever more!
 

Pablosammy

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#39
The idea of closing the Conference off by reducing it to one up is massively anti-competition and increases a drive to more shite clinging on at the bottom of League 2. Frankly, Grimsby, Port Vale and Morecambe were all worthwhile candidates for relegation but got away with it because there were only two spots to avoid.

Build in a proper promotion/relegation 3 up/3 down system and you’ll get a much more “natural” flow of clubs being in the correct league. The only reason for not bringing it in is protectionism from those clubs scared of being too shite to avoid the drop.
This, if I'm being honest. Wrexham should have been promoted years ago when they got 98 points, but they finished second and the rest is history. We got 95 points last season, and missed out to a team who got 86. Free movement between leagues is a healthy thing - the only teams it inconveniences are the badly-run clubs who survive by the skin of their teeth every year (Morecambe, I'm looking at you!).
 

dedwardp

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#40
Love the play-offs and like the new non-league format this season.

Think two legs are better than one though as anything can happen in one game but feels like a more balanced outcome across two legs.
 

hellogregory

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#42
Yes and Exeter, Tranmere, Cambridge (I think) and York all went up via the playoffs so would be condemned for ever more!
So did we! I just don’t think finishing 2nd down to 7th is deserving of such a big prize of a place in the football league.
 

hellogregory

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#44
I bet you'd change your tune if Carlisle got relegated and finished 2nd in the National League with 98 points!
No I wouldn’t. We got relegated and finished 2nd and won the conf playoffs. I was happy we got the chance to go up from a selfish point of view, but it still wasn’t right.
 

Pablosammy

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#45
No I wouldn’t. We got relegated and finished 2nd and won the conf playoffs. I was happy we got the chance to go up from a selfish point of view, but it still wasn’t right.
Well, being pedantic you actually finished 3rd on 73 points. If you'd had 98 points, you'd have won the league by 12 points that season (I know there were less teams then, but my point stands even if you do it pro-rata).

Would you argue the Premiership is way more prestigious than the Championship, and therefore there should only be one promotion spot from the Championship? Arguably the jump between those two is bigger than National League to League Two.
 

AdamStag

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#47
This, if I'm being honest. Wrexham should have been promoted years ago when they got 98 points, but they finished second and the rest is history. We got 95 points last season, and missed out to a team who got 86. Free movement between leagues is a healthy thing - the only teams it inconveniences are the badly-run clubs who survive by the skin of their teeth every year (Morecambe, I'm looking at you!).
I’m inclined to agree, though there are many arguments on both sides on how many sides should come up. Morecambe do what they need to however, sooner or later it’ll catch up with them and they’ll never be seen again - we all know that’ll happen at some stage.

I also quite like what they do in Scotland, were (saying we’ve 3 auto places from the conference) 22nd would either go into a playoff system with 3/4/5 in the conference or they got an automatic home tie along with 3rd, then 4-7 did what they did this season
 

AdamStag

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#48
I bet you'd change your tune if Carlisle got relegated and finished 2nd in the National League with 98 points!
Kidderminster finished behind us on over 90 points, put all their eggs one basket and are in the conference north now. They lost to Wrexham who were easily 10 points behind them - I remember Hereford not going up after gaining a ridiculous amount of points also.
 

Pablosammy

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#49
Kidderminster finished behind us on over 90 points, put all their eggs one basket and are in the conference north now. They lost to Wrexham who were easily 10 points behind them - I remember Hereford not going up after gaining a ridiculous amount of points also.
Shame, Kiddie is a good away day.
 

Posh Harry

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#50
I’m inclined to agree, though there are many arguments on both sides on how many sides should come up. Morecambe do what they need to however, sooner or later it’ll catch up with them and they’ll never be seen again - we all know that’ll happen at some stage.

I also quite like what they do in Scotland, were (saying we’ve 3 auto places from the conference) 22nd would either go into a playoff system with 3/4/5 in the conference or they got an automatic home tie along with 3rd, then 4-7 did what they did this season
That’s how the play offs started in england with a team from different leagues playing each other in a 2 legged game in the 1980’s. Massive amounts of crowd trouble though and I think this must have been part of the reason they soon changed it to play offs just with teams of the same division.
 

AdamStag

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#51
That’s how the play offs started in england with a team from different leagues playing each other in a 2 legged game in the 1980’s. Massive amounts of crowd trouble though and I think this must have been part of the reason they soon changed it to play offs just with teams of the same division.
Surely the crowd trouble in the 80's was more down to how football was then, rather than clubs playing each other from different leagues?

Say they did 22nd in this league (morecambe) with 2/3/4 in the conference (tranmere, sutton and boreham) I can't exactly seeing any of that kick off. It's not going to happen either way I suppose, but innovation for footbasll is good - try it - and if it doesn't work you can always revert back to the tried and tested way.

To only have 1 promotion space from the conference would be a ridiculous argument all round - it's protectionist from league clubs, would encourage more daft spending in the conference while also adding to further financial pressures from dips in attendance when it's evident that teams have no hope of succeeding.
 

Vanni

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#52
Quote - 'To only have 1 promotion space from the conference would be a ridiculous argument all round - it's protectionist from league clubs, would encourage more daft spending in the conference while also adding to further financial pressures from dips in attendance when it's evident that teams have no hope of succeeding.'

Well said Adam. People like HG need to realise that it doesn't really matter if it's 1, 2 or 3 up from the conference - those clubs that the snobs call the village/bankrolled/tinpot sides (delete where applicable) will be joining the FL in time regardless. Unless they run out of money before they go up course. In fact, having only 1 promotion spot will almost guarantee that the ex league 'proper' (LOL) clubs will miss out completely.

Anyways, this talk of 'proper' ex league sides is all bollox anyway. IMO, and looking at next year's conference line up, only Pools and Orient could be classified as such. Halifax have now spent 18 years out of the league, while Wrexham are in for their 11th year in NL. My point is if you ask a 15 year old Wrexham fan if he remembers his lot playing league footy then he'll say no he doesn't.

Make it 3 up 3 down and give a chance to other sides to replace the good 6-8 sides in L2 whose sole ambition year in year out is to stay up and nothing else. Hell, even Wrexham might come up then :)
 

AdamStag

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#53
Quote - 'To only have 1 promotion space from the conference would be a ridiculous argument all round - it's protectionist from league clubs, would encourage more daft spending in the conference while also adding to further financial pressures from dips in attendance when it's evident that teams have no hope of succeeding.'

Well said Adam. People like HG need to realise that it doesn't really matter if it's 1, 2 or 3 up from the conference - those clubs that the snobs call the village/bankrolled/tinpot sides (delete where applicable) will be joining the FL in time regardless. Unless they run out of money before they go up course. In fact, having only 1 promotion spot will almost guarantee that the ex league 'proper' (LOL) clubs will miss out completely.

Anyways, this talk of 'proper' ex league sides is all bollox anyway. IMO, and looking at next year's conference line up, only Pools and Orient could be classified as such. Halifax have now spent 18 years out of the league, while Wrexham are in for their 11th year in NL. My point is if you ask a 15 year old Wrexham fan if he remembers his lot playing league footy then he'll say no he doesn't.

Make it 3 up 3 down and give a chance to other sides to replace the good 6-8 sides in L2 whose sole ambition year in year out is to stay up and nothing else. Hell, even Wrexham might come up then :)
Agree with you completely
 

Soup Ladle

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#54
Quote - 'To only have 1 promotion space from the conference would be a ridiculous argument all round - it's protectionist from league clubs, would encourage more daft spending in the conference while also adding to further financial pressures from dips in attendance when it's evident that teams have no hope of succeeding.'

Well said Adam. People like HG need to realise that it doesn't really matter if it's 1, 2 or 3 up from the conference - those clubs that the snobs call the village/bankrolled/tinpot sides (delete where applicable) will be joining the FL in time regardless. Unless they run out of money before they go up course. In fact, having only 1 promotion spot will almost guarantee that the ex league 'proper' (LOL) clubs will miss out completely.

Anyways, this talk of 'proper' ex league sides is all bollox anyway. IMO, and looking at next year's conference line up, only Pools and Orient could be classified as such. Halifax have now spent 18 years out of the league, while Wrexham are in for their 11th year in NL. My point is if you ask a 15 year old Wrexham fan if he remembers his lot playing league footy then he'll say no he doesn't.

Make it 3 up 3 down and give a chance to other sides to replace the good 6-8 sides in L2 whose sole ambition year in year out is to stay up and nothing else. Hell, even Wrexham might come up then :)
It's a good job Wrexham never post on here or you'll be baaaa'd' from Brotherhood entry for life
 

hellogregory

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#55
Well, being pedantic you actually finished 3rd on 73 points. If you'd had 98 points, you'd have won the league by 12 points that season (I know there were less teams then, but my point stands even if you do it pro-rata).

Would you argue the Premiership is way more prestigious than the Championship, and therefore there should only be one promotion spot from the Championship? Arguably the jump between those two is bigger than National League to League Two.
Ok it was a long time ago, but 2nd/3rd, it's still not right. You should have to be conference champions to earn a place in the football league. My opinion on that will never change.

No I wouldn't make it one place to the premier. The premier league is still the football league (it isn't but it is), so more ups and downs is ok in my view. The drain pipe that goes between League and Non League is the only one that should be narrow.
 

Vanni

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#56
It's a good job Wrexham never post on here or you'll be baaaa'd' from Brotherhood entry for life
I don't believe we're eligible for the Brotherhood anyway, but I'm not up to date on this elite organisation's minimum requirements for membership so I could be wrong. BTW, the Brotherhood was actually founded by BT2F the Halifax fan, but was probably taken over by Wrexham supporters when they discovered they were going to be stuck down there for quite a while. I reckon they should've gone for Mr C. Harrison if they're serious about going up :animatedf:

Anyway, if the Brotherhood turns down our request, I'm sure the SPCA (the Semi-Proper Clubs Association) won't. They seldom refuse anything and will probs welcome us with open arms.
 

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