Is England's squad good enough to succeed in Russia?

Gassy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
Likes
548
Location
Bratislava, Slovakia
Supports
Bristol Rovers
#91
I think we've had Pickford and Butland earmarked since the aftermath of Euro 2016, when it became clear we needed to find a new goalkeeper. Despite 10 caps between them, they've both been in the squads regularly in that time.

Pope has come slightly from left field, forced his way into the squad on the back of an excellent season, which is just what you want from previously totally unconsidered English players. Whilst forcing a way into the squad is one thing, I guess it becomes harder to parachute him straight from nothing to number 1 over the head of Butland and Pickford? There's been a certain inertia for 18 months around those two for this tournament.

To be honest I think there's really not a lot between the 3 of them, they're all reasonable choices without any being top class. If Pope continues over next season it'll force Southgate to think again. Right now we could happily pick any 1 of them and have other areas of the pitch we need to worry about more.
Fair shout, I personally rate Pop the highest but I see your point.

On another note, I was quite impressed with England last night - it’s very rare that I say that
 

St. Juste

Active Member
Messages
807
Likes
79
Location
Barra da Tijuca
Supports
St. Mirren
#92
I don't think it matters either way. Is anyone looking at Brazil and saying they will struggle because of how they went out 4 years ago? The press just crap on everything England indiscriminately, it's boring.

I much preferred it when they thought England were the best in the world ahead of the World Cup, then after a lacklustre opening game they would crap on them.
Which media outlets are you referring to?

Certainly on the BBC, I wonder if they keep the articles they write before tournaments as they are virtually all the same. "Rare sense of serenity" "not the same this time" "media loved the speed dating approach".

The cycle of England talking themselves down then gradually hyping themselves up just prior to the tournament is a well worn one. I wouldn't be surprised if Shearer repeats his 2016 gem "maybe the expectations are so low we just might win it".

Absolutely. As always it will come down to if (and it’s a big IF) they actually turn up when the pressure is on. If they do, they’ll be one of the more exciting teams at the tournament.
I’ve not seen an England team that has so many selection headaches for quite some time. Usually it’s just, “Should Rooney play?”.. and the answer was of course no. But the options England have this year are impressive. Lots of pace, creativity (attacking midfielders), movement and even some strength and power. Rashford has to play behind Kane now, as Sterling just doesn’t have the same threat as he does for Man City. I’d like for Loftus-Cheek to start too (whether that’s ahead of Lingard or Alli), as he makes things happen, he has upper body strength and he can pick a pass. He’s also comfortable driving forward with the ball at his feet.
The right wing back position is very strong, as that Alexander-Arnold is some talent. However my preference would be Trippier.
I’m not overly convinced by the defence as they do tend to give away chances every game. But then again, no team will have a perfect defence because that’s modern football. I mean Sergio Ramos is classed as one of the best in the world and he’s riddled with errors.
I don’t rate the left wing back position too highly as I’ve never been convinced by Rose and Young (although I rate him) will get sussed out. I’d like to see Delph there.
The goalkeeper situation is tricky. I think Butland has been one of the most consistent keepers in the league the last few years, but errors/bad decisions have crept into his game the season just gone. Pickford has many faults too, but he does possess a monster kick that could be a weapon and he is good on the ball generally. Speaking of keepers, that Navas has to be the luckiest player ever. He would struggle in the National League. Makes so many mistakes and is so overrated.
So yes, they have a chance to do well, if they perform. Perform with the same energy, ability and movement that they’ve been showing recently and, well.. they should at least be entertaining to watch for once.
Your typical England fan, complete with bizarre attacks on Ramos and Navas - the latter of whom is apparently not good enough for non league semi pro football in England. Astounding!

Of course the one thing England are missing, and that's clear to most, is a playmaker in the sense of an Eriken, Silva, De Bruyne etc. Plenty of runners, not plenty of creativity.
 

Steve_Wafc

Active Member
Messages
794
Likes
177
Location
Shropshire
Supports
Wrexham AFC
#93
I do wonder why Pope isn’t really being considered though?

Highest finish in the league, most clean sheets, 0 errors that lead to shots/goals (bth Pickford and Butland had a tally) and Pope had the highest save percentage of shots at him by far??
I agree to be honest. I think it just comes down to experience (in terms of caps) and playing more than one season in the premier league (Pope technically hasn’t completed one yet). I’ve not seen any faults in Pope’s game though (apart from maybe his distribution, looked quite slow and nearly charged down a few times), but I wouldn’t be against Pope coming in if he’s needed.
 

Steve_Wafc

Active Member
Messages
794
Likes
177
Location
Shropshire
Supports
Wrexham AFC
#94
Your typical England fan, complete with bizarre attacks on Ramos and Navas - the latter of whom is apparently not good enough for non league semi pro football in England. Astounding!

Of course the one thing England are missing, and that's clear to most, is a playmaker in the sense of an Eriken, Silva, De Bruyne etc. Plenty of runners, not plenty of creativity.
Oh Ramos is so flawed. I’ve seen him get ripped apart many a time. Robben and Holland showed how average he was at the last World Cup. He has strong areas and I’m not saying he’s the worst centre half at the World Cup, but he has many flaws. Then we have Navas, who has made mistakes in the league, champions league and also internationally (like yesterday). He struggles from crosses, he doesn’t catch the ball and he also seems pretty suspect at judging the flight of the ball (yesterday again). I regret nothing. The National League is not semi-pro also..

I agree that we don’t have someone with the ability and brain of those players, but we do have players who can create chances. And also players who can finish those chances.. well, they better anyway.
 
Last edited:

Gassy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,464
Likes
548
Location
Bratislava, Slovakia
Supports
Bristol Rovers
#95
Which media outlets are you referring to?

Certainly on the BBC, I wonder if they keep the articles they write before tournaments as they are virtually all the same. "Rare sense of serenity" "not the same this time" "media loved the speed dating approach".

The cycle of England talking themselves down then gradually hyping themselves up just prior to the tournament is a well worn one. I wouldn't be surprised if Shearer repeats his 2016 gem "maybe the expectations are so low we just might win it".



Your typical England fan, complete with bizarre attacks on Ramos and Navas - the latter of whom is apparently not good enough for non league semi pro football in England. Astounding!

Of course the one thing England are missing, and that's clear to most, is a playmaker in the sense of an Eriken, Silva, De Bruyne etc. Plenty of runners, not plenty of creativity.
What a plonker you are!
 

St. Juste

Active Member
Messages
807
Likes
79
Location
Barra da Tijuca
Supports
St. Mirren
#96
Oh Ramos is so flawed. I’ve seen him get ripped apart many a time. Robben and Holland showed how average he was at the last World Cup. He has strong areas and I’m not saying he’s the worst centre half at the World Cup, but he has many flaws. Then we have Navas, who has made mistakes in the league, champions league and also internationally (like yesterday). He struggles from crosses, he doesn’t catch the ball and he also seems pretty suspect at judging the flight of the ball (yesterday again). I regret nothing. The National League is not semi-pro also..

I agree that we don’t have someone with the ability and brain of those players, but we do have players who can create chances. And also players who can finish those chances.. well, they better anyway.
Yeah, and Pele and Messi miss chances. Of course great defenders and goalkeepers make mistakes but Ramos has been a crucial part of the most successful club and national side of the last few years. He's a phenomenal player and a born winner, certainly in the pantheon of the greatest centre backs ever. Baresi and Cannavaro made plenty of mistakes too. There isn't a side in the world that wouldn't start Ramos.

As for Navas, he certainly isn't as good, but nevertheless got a move to Real Madrid based on his fantastic performances for Costa Rica and Levante. Not a big name, not the best player in the Madrid side, but with plenty of good qualities - he's certainly amongst the top 20 keepers in the world if not top 10. He's obviously far better than anything England have to offer.

Its another curious fact of being an English football to say X elite foreign player is rubbish. It's smacks of a bit of ignorance and arrogance and is prevalent amongst fans and media. Two examples that stick are are the horrendous treatment of Ronaldo during 2002 WC, C. Ronaldo in 2004 and then Ibrahimoivc until he scored 4 against England. When, according to Jamie Rednkapp, the world "woke up to the awesome power of Zlatan" - a player who had been at the top level for almost a decade.

Ramos is a fantastic player at the top of his game, Navas isn't on that level but a more than serviceable keeper for the worlds best club side. He has probably never had as bad a game as Pickford did in his last club appearance.

And, finally, there are semi pro teams in the National League.
 

SF_

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,146
Likes
2,050
Supports
Preston North End
#97
Pickford will go on to be an excellent keeper, was obvious to see he would be an international goalkeeper when we had him on loan and i've no doubt he will establish himself further.

Just turned 24, making him the youngest number 1 in the tournament I think, can only be good for his development.

I'd stick my neck out on him being England's keeper for years to come and having a very good club career in the top flight. When Navas was Pickford's age he was being relegated to the Spanish third tier.
 

Steve_Wafc

Active Member
Messages
794
Likes
177
Location
Shropshire
Supports
Wrexham AFC
#98
Yeah, and Pele and Messi miss chances. Of course great defenders and goalkeepers make mistakes but Ramos has been a crucial part of the most successful club and national side of the last few years. He's a phenomenal player and a born winner, certainly in the pantheon of the greatest centre backs ever. Baresi and Cannavaro made plenty of mistakes too. There isn't a side in the world that wouldn't start Ramos.

As for Navas, he certainly isn't as good, but nevertheless got a move to Real Madrid based on his fantastic performances for Costa Rica and Levante. Not a big name, not the best player in the Madrid side, but with plenty of good qualities - he's certainly amongst the top 20 keepers in the world if not top 10. He's obviously far better than anything England have to offer.

Its another curious fact of being an English football to say X elite foreign player is rubbish. It's smacks of a bit of ignorance and arrogance and is prevalent amongst fans and media. Two examples that stick are are the horrendous treatment of Ronaldo during 2002 WC, C. Ronaldo in 2004 and then Ibrahimoivc until he scored 4 against England. When, according to Jamie Rednkapp, the world "woke up to the awesome power of Zlatan" - a player who had been at the top level for almost a decade.

Ramos is a fantastic player at the top of his game, Navas isn't on that level but a more than serviceable keeper for the worlds best club side. He has probably never had as bad a game as Pickford did in his last club appearance.

And, finally, there are semi pro teams in the National League.
Of course, everyone makes mistakes, everyone is human, I completely understand that. However, Ramos is nowhere near as good as Cannavaro was, he had positional sense and was a real leader. Ramos can be a leader, but he can’t be trusted, because all you need to do is step on his toe and he’ll slap you or something and get himself sent off. His lack of discipline is unbelievable. Some teams like Man City and PSG have all the money in the world, yet they don’t try to break the bank to bring Ramos in, there has to be a reason for that, and I think it’s because teams know he can’t be trusted.

The England keepers are far from perfect but I think at least two of them are better than Navas, in my opinion.

It’s not arrogance nor being disrespectful on my part, I’m just giving you an honest assessment of how I rate these players. I don’t know what you’re referring to for the Ronaldo, C. Ronaldo and Ibra stick, but I’ve always rated them. Although the latter can be quite lazy and a bit selfish.

You’re talking about Pickford’s performance vs West Ham? Yeah that wasn’t great. Ramos off the top of my head had consecutive bad performances in the Champions League though. First the Quarter Final 2nd leg where he dropped that easy cross vs Juventus, gifting a tap in. Then the next round in the 1st leg v Bayern, where he basically dived out of the way of Kimmich’s drive.

And if you look at the National League (the top level, not the North and South etc below), the majority are full time sides.
 

rudebwoyben

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
3,198
Likes
878
Location
London N7
Supports
Barnet
#99
I was considering World Cups.

What does this on paper stuff really mean? I'd be interested to see a clear definition.

Saudi Arabian internationals aren't allowed to play outside their country I think (?) they might be great for all I know,
They definitely are as Al-Jaber had a spell with Wolves after the 1998 World Cup Finals.
 
Messages
1,784
Likes
1,726
Location
Guildford, Surrey
Supports
mighty, mighty Ks
other than Serbia, right? ;)

Did England really won only 5 k.o matches in all World Cups after 1966? Wow, that's few (maybe they get "another one" this time)
The way St Hugh/Miranda/Juste has framed it makes it look bad, but it's not really. To begin with three of the post-66 WCs didn't even have a knockout stage; that it to say that if you reached the "knockout stage" in 74, 78 and 82 you were in the semi-finals. What is meant by a knockout stage win these days is a last 16 victory and hence qualification for the quarters. England have made a QFs five times since 66. This puts us behind Germany (11), Brazil (10), Argentina (7), Italy (7), Netherland (6) and on a par with France (5). Ahead of anyone else. And if you factor '66 and prior WCs into the equation (and why wouldn't you, it seems a rather arbitrary and convenient cut-off point after all!) then we leapfrog France and the Netherlands. In summary, nothing to see here other than a Scotsman with a large sack of potatoes on his shoulders :)

Your typical England fan, complete with bizarre attacks on Ramos and Navas - the latter of whom is apparently not good enough for non league semi pro football in England. Astounding!
Weird how someone with an opinion on a footballer (a bizarre occurrence on a football forum, admittedly) becomes a "typical England fan", who's both "ignorant" and "arrogant" when it's something you disagree with. Almost as though you have an agenda?

Its another curious fact of being an English football to say X elite foreign player is rubbish.
Now you're losing the plot. Footballs can't talk m8.
 

St. Juste

Active Member
Messages
807
Likes
79
Location
Barra da Tijuca
Supports
St. Mirren
Of course, everyone makes mistakes, everyone is human, I completely understand that. However, Ramos is nowhere near as good as Cannavaro was, he had positional sense and was a real leader. Ramos can be a leader, but he can’t be trusted, because all you need to do is step on his toe and he’ll slap you or something and get himself sent off. His lack of discipline is unbelievable. Some teams like Man City and PSG have all the money in the world, yet they don’t try to break the bank to bring Ramos in, there has to be a reason for that, and I think it’s because teams know he can’t be trusted.

The England keepers are far from perfect but I think at least two of them are better than Navas, in my opinion.

It’s not arrogance nor being disrespectful on my part, I’m just giving you an honest assessment of how I rate these players. I don’t know what you’re referring to for the Ronaldo, C. Ronaldo and Ibra stick, but I’ve always rated them. Although the latter can be quite lazy and a bit selfish.

You’re talking about Pickford’s performance vs West Ham? Yeah that wasn’t great. Ramos off the top of my head had consecutive bad performances in the Champions League though. First the Quarter Final 2nd leg where he dropped that easy cross vs Juventus, gifting a tap in. Then the next round in the 1st leg v Bayern, where he basically dived out of the way of Kimmich’s drive.

And if you look at the National League (the top level, not the North and South etc below), the majority are full time sides.
Why haven't PSG or Man City purchased Ramos? Real Madrid don't lose players they want to keep, Ramos is far better than any of the defenders in either of those teams.

Cannavaro had a fantastic world cup, and plenty of poor seasons....

But, anyway, chips on the table - which centre back is better than Ramos? Why have they achieved far less than him?

Pickford let in three bad goals in one game vs. West Ham, apparently Navas let in two bad goals in the entire CL run which Real Madrid won.

You really think Real Madrids keeper is barely good enough for semi pro football in England? Is Carvajal not good enough for League 2 either? Paulo Dybala is a decent player, but not Aaron Wilbraham, right?

Where will this madness end?

They definitely are as Al-Jaber had a spell with Wolves after the 1998 World Cup Finals.
True, they currently have three players playing outside their national league. Interestingly, all loans to La Liga, making three appearances all season between them. The idea to loan players out was only agreed this year.

The way St Hugh/Miranda/Juste has framed it makes it look bad, but it's not really. To begin with three of the post-66 WCs didn't even have a knockout stage; that it to say that if you reached the "knockout stage" in 74, 78 and 82 you were in the semi-finals. What is meant by a knockout stage win these days is a last 16 victory and hence qualification for the quarters. England have made a QFs five times since 66. This puts us behind Germany (11), Brazil (10), Argentina (7), Italy (7), Netherland (6) and on a par with France (5). Ahead of anyone else. And if you factor '66 and prior WCs into the equation (and why wouldn't you, it seems a rather arbitrary and convenient cut-off point after all!) then we leapfrog France and the Netherlands. In summary, nothing to see here other than a Scotsman with a large sack of potatoes on his shoulders :)

Weird how someone with an opinion on a footballer (a bizarre occurrence on a football forum, admittedly) becomes a "typical England fan", who's both "ignorant" and "arrogant" when it's something you disagree with. Almost as though you have an agenda?

Now you're losing the plot. Footballs can't talk m8.
Conveniently you have forgotten that England didn't even qualify for 74 or 78, making that point rather redundant.

Still, if we are going by the above methodology Scotland (long lambasted for never reaching the knockout rounds) have actually won two knockout matches, because there was only 16 teams in the tournament at the time. Great.

Pre 1970s some major nations didn't even have professional leagues, if England are bragging about their record here beating the Dutch (a nation a third of their size) that's getting kind of desperate.

A narrative even followed by some responsible English journalists is that the 1966 victory was one of the worst things that could have happened as it reinforced a false sense of self belief and arrogance in English football that it didn't need to change and it stays isolated and well behind the trends for decades to come.

Even now, they have a team full of athletes and none of the playmakers who have dominated football (and certainly international football) in the last 10 years.

With regards to your final point, saying Navas is only good enough for semi pro football and that Ramos is rubbish are just mental opinions. To be categorised with statements that the Earth is flat.
 

Stevencc

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
13,176
Likes
7,175
Location
°
Supports
°
St. Juste just admitted he was wrong about something.

We've witnessed something truly incredible on this day.
 

mistermagic

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,940
Likes
624
Supports
Stoke City (I don't make the rules, Epic73 does)
Twitter
@FinallyFifou
I do wonder why Pope isn’t really being considered though?

Highest finish in the league, most clean sheets, 0 errors that lead to shots/goals (bth Pickford and Butland had a tally) and Pope had the highest save percentage of shots at him by far??
Not playing for a big enough club perhaps? Pickford playing giving Everton publicity in order to attract talented continental players? I'd have Pope. I don't wish for it but reckon Pickford is as error-prone as James/Robinson was.

Of course, everyone makes mistakes, everyone is human, I completely understand that. However, Ramos is nowhere near as good as Cannavaro was, he had positional sense and was a real leader. Ramos can be a leader, but he can’t be trusted, because all you need to do is step on his toe and he’ll slap you or something and get himself sent off. His lack of discipline is unbelievable. Some teams like Man City and PSG have all the money in the world, yet they don’t try to break the bank to bring Ramos in, there has to be a reason for that, and I think it’s because teams know he can’t be trusted.
Disagree with that. Ramos' main quality is that he is a leader and he is completely trustworthy. We saw his abscence being dearly felt by RM in the quarter-final 2nd leg vs Juventus. The lack lof leadership of Real was blatant.
Agree on Navas though. Reckon he's a very lucky bunny to play that level of football. He's ok but lightyears behind the likes of Buffon or Neuer.
 

Steve_Wafc

Active Member
Messages
794
Likes
177
Location
Shropshire
Supports
Wrexham AFC
Why haven't PSG or Man City purchased Ramos? Real Madrid don't lose players they want to keep, Ramos is far better than any of the defenders in either of those teams.

Cannavaro had a fantastic world cup, and plenty of poor seasons....

But, anyway, chips on the table - which centre back is better than Ramos? Why have they achieved far less than him?

Pickford let in three bad goals in one game vs. West Ham, apparently Navas let in two bad goals in the entire CL run which Real Madrid won.

You really think Real Madrids keeper is barely good enough for semi pro football in England? Is Carvajal not good enough for League 2 either? Paulo Dybala is a decent player, but not Aaron Wilbraham, right?

Where will this madness end?
.
Not that no one has purchased, I’m not saying that. You don’t hear about people throwing money at him and the way the media is these days, you’d have thought that rumours like that would be around every summer.

Which centre backs are better than him? Off the top of my head.. Chiellini, Alderweireld, a fully fit Kompany, Godin and of course.. Shaun Pearson. What a man.
Why have they achieved less than Ramos? Less quality in the attacking areas. Real Madrid have Ronaldo, simple. How many times does he bail them out or win them a game when they’ve been truly terrible? Real Madrid finished 3rd in the league this season, for them that’s awful. Look how many more goals they conceded than Barcelona, Atletico and Valencia. Even teams around mid table conceded less, they just didn’t have the firepower. If they didn’t have people like Ronaldo, the season would have been even worse. Ronaldo’s unbelievable ability to carry Madrid through games papers over Ramos’ flaws.

Oh I’m sure Navas made more, those were just off the top of my head. Those mistakes were so bad and not something a top keeper does.

I was poking fun about him struggling in the National League.. slightly. The amount of crosses and high balls you have to deal with, I think he possibly could struggle, but I feel the same way about others who don’t have to deal with that kind of treatment regularly.
Why would Carvajal not be good enough for League 2? I don’t follow that logic. Carvajal actually offfers something to Madrid, as does Dybala for Juventus.
Wilbraham is better than Benzema :fish:
 

Steve_Wafc

Active Member
Messages
794
Likes
177
Location
Shropshire
Supports
Wrexham AFC
Disagree with that. Ramos' main quality is that he is a leader and he is completely trustworthy. We saw his abscence being dearly felt by RM in the quarter-final 2nd leg vs Juventus. The lack lof leadership of Real was blatant.
Agree on Navas though. Reckon he's a very lucky bunny to play that level of football. He's ok but lightyears behind the likes of Buffon or Neuer.
Ramos has been sent off for Real Madrid 24 times. That’s astounding. It is really hard to rely on him because he could be having a good game, he might score, but he’s so petulant and aggressive that he’ll get himself red carded needlessly 5 mins later. It wasn’t just that they were without Ramos in that game, it’s that they gave a young guy a debut in a huge game and he couldn’t handle it. If they’d put a more experienced player in that position, I’m sure they would have been more secure.
Oh absolutely. There are many keepers who are better than Navas. Guardiola knew he had to find a new keeper after Bravo’s disastrous season and look what happened, he won the league the next season. Now I’m not saying it was completely down to that, because it wasn’t. But he definitely helped them keep the ball out of the netty thing more often and that’s crucial.
 

Liam_SWFC

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,658
Likes
499
Location
Sheffield
Supports
Sheffield Wednesday
FFS St Juste, if you put as much effort into doing something positive, as you do trawling an Internet forum to bash anything posted pro English, you could find a cure for cancer or aids.
 

Leo

To be a rock and not to roll.
Site Supporter
Messages
3,789
Likes
1,368
Location
Stairway To Heaven
Supports
a wife and now 2 cats
FFS St Juste, if you put as much effort into doing something positive, as you do trawling an Internet forum to bash anything posted pro English, you could find a cure for cancer or aids.
Irrespective of what (totally unwarranted) impression the buffoon gives of how Scots view English Football Liam (or indeed anything English) not all I can assure you are of that view. From a personal point of view I hope England do well.....I can't see them winning the tournament but I'd like to see them do a turn that satisfies England fans.

PS....he couldny find a cure for the cold unless it was on the end of a snotty hankie mate.
 

AFCB_Mark

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Messages
3,474
Likes
1,063
Supports
A single unitary authority for urban Dorset
3rd straight Toulon Tournament win on the bounce :cool:
 

AnimoEtFide

Well-Known Member
Messages
474
Likes
497
Location
UK
Supports
Stockport County
Imagine spending your time obsessively consuming media coverage of England, working yourself into a state about it then writing tracts about it on the internet.

I'd recommend anyone in Scotland (Wales, NI, etc) do what we in England do and just recognise it for what it is and ignore it.
 

Leo

To be a rock and not to roll.
Site Supporter
Messages
3,789
Likes
1,368
Location
Stairway To Heaven
Supports
a wife and now 2 cats
Imagine spending your time obsessively consuming media coverage of England, working yourself into a state about it then writing tracts about it on the internet.

I'd recommend anyone in Scotland (Wales, NI, etc) do what we in England do and just recognise it for what it is and ignore it.
'some' of us Scots do what you suggest mate.
 

St. Juste

Active Member
Messages
807
Likes
79
Location
Barra da Tijuca
Supports
St. Mirren
Not that no one has purchased, I’m not saying that. You don’t hear about people throwing money at him and the way the media is these days, you’d have thought that rumours like that would be around every summer.

Which centre backs are better than him? Off the top of my head.. Chiellini, Alderweireld, a fully fit Kompany, Godin and of course.. Shaun Pearson. What a man.
Why have they achieved less than Ramos? Less quality in the attacking areas. Real Madrid have Ronaldo, simple. How many times does he bail them out or win them a game when they’ve been truly terrible? Real Madrid finished 3rd in the league this season, for them that’s awful. Look how many more goals they conceded than Barcelona, Atletico and Valencia. Even teams around mid table conceded less, they just didn’t have the firepower. If they didn’t have people like Ronaldo, the season would have been even worse. Ronaldo’s unbelievable ability to carry Madrid through games papers over Ramos’ flaws.

Oh I’m sure Navas made more, those were just off the top of my head. Those mistakes were so bad and not something a top keeper does.

I was poking fun about him struggling in the National League.. slightly. The amount of crosses and high balls you have to deal with, I think he possibly could struggle, but I feel the same way about others who don’t have to deal with that kind of treatment regularly.
Why would Carvajal not be good enough for League 2? I don’t follow that logic. Carvajal actually offfers something to Madrid, as does Dybala for Juventus.
Wilbraham is better than Benzema :fish:
There are no rumours about any Real Madrid players, really, other than those concocted by said players agent (which Ramos did recently before signing a new contract and Ronaldo does repeatedly). At Real, there is no way up, no where for Ramos to go.

As for those centre backs, you've named one who hasn't played all season (and was a complete failure in Spanish football) and Kompany who isn't even guaranteed a place in the Man City team - and has nevertheless been horribly overrated for the past few years.

Of those only Godin and Chiellini comes close - for the former there's probably a reason he plays for the second best side in Madrid. If Real wanted him they could probably get him. Chiellini is a great defender but makes plenty of mistakes (more than Ramos) and plays in a team more suited for defending. Who were nevertheless themselves pummeled by Madrid this year and last.

No idea why you've got something out for Ramos, he's a key player in the most successful club and national side in the world. He's an absolutely fantastic player, if he was secretly rubbish he's done an exceptional job of hiding it.

Is Lloris a top keeper? He has made many more errors than Navas this season.

FFS St Juste, if you put as much effort into doing something positive, as you do trawling an Internet forum to bash anything posted pro English, you could find a cure for cancer or aids.
I'm not bashing anything, I think on this thread I have compared the England squad from now relative to 2006 and then looked at what knockout games they have won.

The latter is completely objective, whilst the former is subjective - kind of the point of a football forum.

If you don't like my posts, don't read or reply.

Irrespective of what (totally unwarranted) impression the buffoon gives of how Scots view English Football Liam (or indeed anything English) not all I can assure you are of that view. From a personal point of view I hope England do well.....I can't see them winning the tournament but I'd like to see them do a turn that satisfies England fans.

PS....he couldny find a cure for the cold unless it was on the end of a snotty hankie mate.
I think this viewpoint in Scotland will be limited exclusively to 'Rangers fans'.

It's the oldest footballing rivalry on earth, it's like expecting Argentinian fans to start supporting Brazil or German fans to back the Netherlands.

Only a true self hater would willingly do that.

Imagine spending your time obsessively consuming media coverage of England, working yourself into a state about it then writing tracts about it on the internet.

I'd recommend anyone in Scotland (Wales, NI, etc) do what we in England do and just recognise it for what it is and ignore it.
Hard thing to imagine, it's certainly not something I do.

The coverage is amusing because it happens whenever England qualifies and the build up will continue unabated until they embarrassingly get dumped out again. It's a script that has been written and performed repeatedly.

It's an unusual situation whereby we are unfortunately subject to English media coverage, I imagine most other countries do it to the same extent but Dutch football fans aren't subjected to German coverage.

So the hubristic build up and the calamitous fall from grace? It's a central theme of most creative writing, and it's good to watch.
 

Renegade

Show me what you got.
Messages
1,932
Likes
1,128
Location
Belfast
Supports
Trad Bricks
Not usually one to defend Hugh, but Ramos and Navas are both very good players and your pretty bizarre logic won't prove otherwise (Real Madrid are a lot more than Ronaldo and Ramos takes top forwards out of games on the regular). It's not as simple as starting for Real Madrid makes you the best (some players will gladly stay at other clubs due to money or loyalty), but it almost certainly means you are one of the best players in your position in the world. I would take a handful of players over Ramos and maybe two handfuls over Navas. If they were as poor as you seem to think they are, they would be replaced. That's what Madrid do in every position if someone isn't up to snuff. They replace, with their infinite resources and prestige. Navas has been largely excellent since Madrid bought him, he's just had a few very high profile blunders this season.
 
Last edited:

Leo

To be a rock and not to roll.
Site Supporter
Messages
3,789
Likes
1,368
Location
Stairway To Heaven
Supports
a wife and now 2 cats
I think this viewpoint in Scotland will be limited exclusively to 'Rangers fans'.
Yep...'think' being the operative word here. Funnily enough several Scottish clubs have supporters who are actually English. I wonder who they will be supporting during the World Cup ?....Hmmmm!

Only a true self hater would willingly do that.
Oh dear....plot lost.

Hard thing to imagine, it's certainly not something I do.
then goes on to say....

The coverage is amusing because it happens whenever England qualifies and the build up will continue unabated
and...

whereby we are unfortunately subject to English media coverage
But it's not something he does.......:ffs:
 

Stevencc

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
13,176
Likes
7,175
Location
°
Supports
°
No, you heard him - Leo, you wouldn't mind seeing England do well at the World Cup - you must truly hate yourself.

Logical, eh?
 

Stevencc

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Messages
13,176
Likes
7,175
Location
°
Supports
°
Were one to wipe one's arse on a Scotland shirt, one would instantly fall down drunk, apparently.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
13,853
Messages
813,065
Members
4,563
Latest member
JohnyEdward6346